Author Topic: What do you know about invasive species?  (Read 2082 times)

Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2017, 11:58:41 AM »
Zebra mussels in Lake Erie... they filter the entire lake on the order of once a week.  For the first time in my life, Lake Erie is a (relatively) clear-water lake, not a muddy/sandy/silty lake.
That's a lot of cubic feet of water to move in a week. How big are the water pumps? and what is the filter supposed to do? catch the eggs? (could make a long term problem by filtering out the eggs of native fish)

I remember a couple years ago they fixed a bug problem mexican fruit fly or mosquito??? by throwing out sterilized females.
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline Baruch

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2017, 12:35:50 PM »
That's a lot of cubic feet of water to move in a week. How big are the water pumps? and what is the filter supposed to do? catch the eggs? (could make a long term problem by filtering out the eggs of native fish)

I remember a couple years ago they fixed a bug problem mexican fruit fly or mosquito??? by throwing out sterilized females.

I think it was sterilized males.
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Offline trdsf

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2017, 02:28:36 PM »
That's a lot of cubic feet of water to move in a week. How big are the water pumps? and what is the filter supposed to do? catch the eggs? (could make a long term problem by filtering out the eggs of native fish)

I remember a couple years ago they fixed a bug problem mexican fruit fly or mosquito??? by throwing out sterilized females.
The water intake pumps are for cooling and steam generation at the power plants; zebra mussels clog the inlets.  And there really are that many of these little guys that they can process the lake weekly.  And filtering the lake has actually improved things for some of the fish in that the increased water clarity allows plants and algae to grow at greater depths than before, so there's more food for some game fish -- which are themselves food for larger fish.

So the zebra mussel is a mixed bag as far as invasion goes.  It's a mechanical problem, but it has been a bioremediatory benefit.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2017, 02:51:01 PM »
The water intake pumps are for cooling and steam generation at the power plants; zebra mussels clog the inlets.  And there really are that many of these little guys that they can process the lake weekly.  And filtering the lake has actually improved things for some of the fish in that the increased water clarity allows plants and algae to grow at greater depths than before, so there's more food for some game fish -- which are themselves food for larger fish.

So the zebra mussel is a mixed bag as far as invasion goes.  It's a mechanical problem, but it has been a bioremediatory benefit.
Would that be a partial solution to polluted bodies of water?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2017, 11:42:24 PM »
oh wow that is a lot of mussels. I thought you meant the power plant was filtering the water to somehow get rid of the mussels. ( mussels are good fish bait if you can figure out how to keep them on a hook)

Are zebra mussels edible? not that I'm gonna eat them the ones in the store are not on my list of edibles.
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2017, 07:17:01 AM »
( mussels are good fish bait if you can figure out how to keep them on a hook)
Nylon hose. Cut a piece and bag up your bait and hook.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline trdsf

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2017, 11:29:28 AM »
Would that be a partial solution to polluted bodies of water?
Not really, because they do change the ecological balance; you could end up driving desirable species out of that habitat or worse.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2017, 11:59:06 AM »
Not really, because they do change the ecological balance; you could end up driving desirable species out of that habitat or worse.
Would you get drinkable water out of it?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »
I recall some friends with a summer cabin on a lake that the Department of Fish and Game had poisoned to get rid of undesirable species,  While all the fish were killed, which would eventually be restocked, one added effect was that the water became crystal clear.  The lake was always that way, but the clarity was even more apparent than it had been before.  I remember the people complaining about the Fish and Game, probably because complaining about government agencies is considered the fashionable thing to do, even though the water from the lake was still drinkable (I guess), and was their potable water supply to the cabin.  But I always wonder about the outcome of environmental engineering with the best intentions.

Another nearby lake with a fair to good trout population somehow got Northern Pike introduced in it.  The government never claimed  to be responsible, so it might have been done by a single party that wanted some Northern Pike.  I was happy, because there isn't anything like tying into a lunker Northern IMO.  The Pike ate all the trout, but for whatever reason, the pike never got bigger than a foot long, which isn't very interesting to a Pike fisherman and a sorry situation for trout lovers.  Maybe they are bigger now.  I haven't fished that lake in 25 years.  Maybe the Pike are gone.  I've been away for a long time.

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2017, 01:03:09 PM »
My track is heading toward biological systems of removing pollution from drinking water, but not necessarily "in the wild". Could something similar to zebra mussels be the first (or later) stage in treating wastewater at sewage plants?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2017, 08:45:31 PM »
I recall some friends with a summer cabin on a lake that the Department of Fish and Game had poisoned to get rid of undesirable species,  While all the fish were killed, which would eventually be restocked, one added effect was that the water became crystal clear.  The lake was always that way, but the clarity was even more apparent than it had been before.  I remember the people complaining about the Fish and Game, probably because complaining about government agencies is considered the fashionable thing to do, even though the water from the lake was still drinkable (I guess), and was their potable water supply to the cabin.  But I always wonder about the outcome of environmental engineering with the best intentions.

Another nearby lake with a fair to good trout population somehow got Northern Pike introduced in it.  The government never claimed  to be responsible, so it might have been done by a single party that wanted some Northern Pike.  I was happy, because there isn't anything like tying into a lunker Northern IMO.  The Pike ate all the trout, but for whatever reason, the pike never got bigger than a foot long, which isn't very interesting to a Pike fisherman and a sorry situation for trout lovers.  Maybe they are bigger now.  I haven't fished that lake in 25 years.  Maybe the Pike are gone.  I've been away for a long time.

Living waters have microscopic creatures, algae, small bugs etc that are repulsive to people seeking drinking water.  Water poisoned by heavy metals for instance, has no living things in it, so it is clear.  People who hike and take natural water, know this.  Living water, filtered properly ... is fit to drink.
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Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2017, 08:05:55 AM »
Perhaps this is why we need all out nuclear war to stop the spread of invasive species, set the world right and in another trillion years we'll be right back to our nice little blue and green planet.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline SGOS

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2017, 08:34:27 AM »
Perhaps this is why we need all out nuclear war to stop the spread of invasive species, set the world right and in another trillion years we'll be right back to our nice little blue and green planet.
That would be nice, but how would this affect capitalism?

Offline Baruch

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2017, 09:53:56 AM »
Definitely a win for capitalism and a loss for socialism.  The only way to stop socialism is to stop society.  The only way to stop society is to kill all the people.  And like the people trading in the 2nd tower while the first tower was aflame ... you can make big profits off of tragedy.
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Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: What do you know about invasive species?
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2017, 06:23:40 PM »
My track is heading toward biological systems of removing pollution from drinking water, but not necessarily "in the wild". Could something similar to zebra mussels be the first (or later) stage in treating wastewater at sewage plants?

I was looking into this for cleaning a fish tank. There is a nice fast growing plant called duckweed that eats fish poop and is also a favorite fish food (looks like 1/4in clover with a water root 3/4in long. Let's not forget that many countries can't afford the chemical world of U.S.A. . Most of the world uses some kind of plants for both water treatment and sewage plants

I don't think the zebra mussel would be a good way to clean water They poop too. I got 20 little manilla clams to make a dinner. put them in a bucket of salt water with rice flour to clean them out. I changed the water every 8-12 hrs for two days. Clam crap stinks. I'm sure a whole lake of mussels smells worse
another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.