the next President of the United States

Started by fencerider, May 15, 2017, 06:53:58 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on May 20, 2017, 09:44:54 AM
Education.  What does that mean?  Why do authoritarian governments refer to brain washing as re-education?  When they say, "We are sending you to a re-education camp," people are alarmed, and for good reason.  "We are sending you to school," doesn't sound so bad, but "We are sending you to be re-schooled," implies something is critically wrong with the schooling.  You went to school, but you learned bad things, which the government sees fit to correct at all costs.  No one shows that kind of commitment to learning except zealots.  Creepy!

1. First you learn from your family ... and that doesn't suite the authorities
2. Second you learn from the authorities ... but they screw up everything
3. Third you are re-educated ... because of #2 ... rinse and repeat ... not your hair, you brain
4. Real education is none of that, but we won't go there ... you have to be a skeptic without being a nihilist, and that doesn't suit your family, your authorities, your society
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

reasonist

Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2017, 06:52:44 AM
Ape men don't do that.  An irrational and self destructive species.  Wait for the next sentient to evolve.

I sense resignation...so we know what the problem is but we have options. We can wallow in cynicism (or idealism) or we can work on real solutions. It's our choice. We know that our pre-frontal cortex is too small and our Adrenalin glands are to big, but we have bright, pacifist people among us who do have the capacity to lead us into a better and more peaceful future. Neil deGrasse Tyson comes to mind for example or Lawrence Krauss. That's the people who should lead us into the future. Scientists without ideological baggage not lawyers should be in power positions. People who have no self serving interests but intellectual advancement of our species. This is not an idealistic approach but a necessary one! Our two prime instincts are survival and reproduction, let's concentrate more on the first and less on the second.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Baruch

Quote from: reasonist on May 20, 2017, 01:54:37 PM
I sense resignation...so we know what the problem is but we have options. We can wallow in cynicism (or idealism) or we can work on real solutions. It's our choice. We know that our pre-frontal cortex is too small and our Adrenalin glands are to big, but we have bright, pacifist people among us who do have the capacity to lead us into a better and more peaceful future. Neil deGrasse Tyson comes to mind for example or Lawrence Krauss. That's the people who should lead us into the future. Scientists without ideological baggage not lawyers should be in power positions. People who have no self serving interests but intellectual advancement of our species. This is not an idealistic approach but a necessary one! Our two prime instincts are survival and reproduction, let's concentrate more on the first and less on the second.

The real solution is ... Caligula.  Kill all the other people, or kill yourself.  I choose to do neither, so real solutions can just go do themselves.  The Dao is ... the art of getting things done, by doing nothing.

People evolve very slowly (but genetic engineering ala Brave New World will solve that).  Individuals develop, they don't evolve.  A criminal species has no need for common good ... other than as a means to fool people into complacency.  Survival?  Doing it .. by exploiting other species, including other people.  Survival is part of our problem, not part of our solution.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

I suspect Trump will decide that resigning will be the better option in the face of many investigations that will damage his businesses.  But, since he cares nothing for politics, he will do it at just the right time to truly mess up the Republicans who put up with him in time for the 2018 mid-term elections.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

reasonist

Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2017, 03:00:37 PM
The real solution is ... Caligula.  Kill all the other people, or kill yourself.  I choose to do neither, so real solutions can just go do themselves.  The Dao is ... the art of getting things done, by doing nothing.

People evolve very slowly (but genetic engineering ala Brave New World will solve that).  Individuals develop, they don't evolve.  A criminal species has no need for common good ... other than as a means to fool people into complacency.  Survival?  Doing it .. by exploiting other species, including other people.  Survival is part of our problem, not part of our solution.

You are right, we evolve slowly but look how far we've come in only a few centuries (a blip in evolutionary terms). Not so long ago we were very inventive when it came to torture people for mostly 'crimes' that are not even chargeable today. Literally millions have been tortured for adultery, sodomy, heresy, blasphemy and 'sexual union with Satan' for example. Especially medieval christendom was a culture of cruelty. Even minor crimes were punished by breaking on the wheel, pulling apart by horses, impalement through the rectum, slow disembowelment and such. Pope Innocent IV (not so aptly named) institutionalized the sadistic killings during the inquisitions and witch hunts. A suspected witch was tied up and thrown into a lake. If she floated, she was a witch and then be hanged, if she sank and drowned it proved that she was innocent!!!
And although torture exists to this day, even sanctioned by democratic elected presidents (W.Bush) it is not only mostly outlawed but also frowned upon by most.
Look at the human sacrifices in so many cultures in history from Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Chinese, Hindus, Aztecs, Greeks, Arabs, Israelites and many more. We have accomplished a remarkable transformation from barbaric and sadistic rituals that were culturally sanctioned and even encouraged or institutionalized, to having corporal and capital punishment mostly abolished, slavery has been outlawed and people have to a vast degree abandoned their thirst for cruelty. Beginning with the Age of Reason in the 17th century, we have come to a change in sensibilities. People began to sympathize with more of their fellow humans. We still have quite a way to go, especially in less developed countries, but compared to even 300 years ago, we are trending definitely more towards humanism, empathy and human rights.
Not fast enough you may say. Fair enough, but the direction we are moving is encouraging. So I don't see it as pessimistic as you do. Things could definitely move faster towards complete harmony and peaceful co-existence, but at least we are improving on all levels. Hopefully in time to avoid mutual extermination or even extirpation. But doing nothing as you suggested is not the answer. What could be more sinister than doing nothing in the face of evil and destruction?
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Baruch

#50
Progressives think that progress has happened, hence they think it will continue.  I don't see the iPhone as progress.  I don't see modernity as some utopia.  Life is always nasty, brutish and short ... at least for people under American drone bombardment.  I don't see movement ... so optimism/pessimism doesn't describe me ... you have to see steady direction, as opposed to random walk to be either.  When you boil a pot of water on the stove, does it all suddenly move to the next burner to the right?  No, it is simply meaningless turbulence.  That is history, meaningless turbulence ... as Macbeth said;

“To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Quote from: Baruch on May 21, 2017, 11:23:14 PM
Progressives think that progress has happened, hence they think it will continue.  I don't see the iPhone as progress.
Whatever it is that progressives value might even be debatable, but I doubt they include material objects like iPhones.

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on May 22, 2017, 08:09:52 AM
Whatever it is that progressives value might even be debatable, but I doubt they include material objects like iPhones.

Their self assessment of their moral superiority over contemporaries and ancestors?  I don't accept self assessment.  Too biased.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2017, 03:00:37 PM


People evolve very slowly (but genetic engineering ala Brave New World will solve that). 
That is a truth that I have had a hard time accepting.  But I do think your are right.  And because people evolve so slowly, so do our societies.  And they seem to grow by the 2 step forward and one step back method.  We seem to be in a step back mode and I find that frustrating.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on May 20, 2017, 06:52:44 AM
Wait for the next sentient to evolve.
I've given that some thought. I wonder how much of our world will be discernible to their science? Will they discover our mistakes in time to prevent doing such things themselves? Future archeologists will have a field day looking at our fossil remains!
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

#55
Quote from: Unbeliever on May 22, 2017, 09:01:28 PM
I've given that some thought. I wonder how much of our world will be discernible to their science? Will they discover our mistakes in time to prevent doing such things themselves? Future archeologists will have a field day looking at our fossil remains!

Well, I understand in 35 million years, California will have been subducted beneath the Aleutian Islands.  So bye bye Hotel California ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

We have the ability to improve ourselves.  And I don't mean genetic engineering (though that is certainly both possible soon and likely in the future.  What I mean is that merely improving health, reproductive control, and education would go a long way to making a more sensible world. 

Educated people with food, reproductive control, and health stability are not inclined to cause wars.  Lack causes more war than ideology does.  When Dickens showed the danger of the present as Want and Lack, he nailed it!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on May 22, 2017, 09:26:10 PM
Well, I understand in 35 million years, California will have been subjected beneath the Aleutian Islands.  So bye bye Hotel California ;-)
I think you meant to say "subducted," rather than "subjected," didn't you?
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on May 24, 2017, 04:50:39 PM
I think you meant to say "subducted," rather than "subjected," didn't you?

Fixed it .. but works either way.  In California, you are their "subjects" given the proposed tax increase.  Governor Moon-beam should just raise it to 100% and declare CSSA ... the next Venezuela.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mermaid

A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR