Author Topic: the next President of the United States  (Read 485 times)

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 11:24:43 AM »
I'm just hoping Cookie Muncher decides to run again.


Offline SGOS

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 11:37:24 AM »
I'm just hoping Cookie Muncher decides to run again.

Are you old enough to remember Alfred E. Newman?  Now there was a notable campaign, with the unforgettable Newman slogan on T-shirts and bumper stickers:  "What?  Me worry?"

I wish he would run again.  I think he could beat Trump.  But his biggest asset is that he wouldn't worry if he didn't.

Offline Baruch

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2017, 01:10:54 PM »
This.  I used to be a Democrat, when it still meant something other than triangulation with Republican policy and Republican donors.  The DNC/RNC has established a one party state, which serves the owners, not the people.  I first noted the betrayal with Bill Clinton after I voted for him in 92.  Nixon was to the Left of all D-party Presidential candidates and Presidents since Bill Clinton.
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Offline trdsf

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2017, 01:15:27 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, this part of the discussion could be a brief summary of the most significant aspect of American politics over the last 40 years.  Thirty years ago, I would have protested it as the wrong direction.  Today I would add that it has been a grave failure.
I won't argue that point at all.  Also, forty years ago, we would have never dreamed that the conservative movement would so quickly recover from the Republican Götterdämmerung of Watergate.  I certainly felt comfortably heading into 1980 that this nation was far too intelligent to ever allow someone as ill-informed as Ronald Reagan near the levers of power -- at the time, I was sufficiently disillusioned with Carter (for reasons that I now know were not entirely of his own doing) that I was preparing myself for the prospect of supporting (I was then still too young to vote) either John Anderson (preferably) or Bush Sr, who was an attractive candidate pre-Reagan, before the Kool-Ade got him -- remember "voodoo economics"?  He was absolutely right about that.

I presume the strategy was to strengthen the Democratic Party by moving as close to the Republicans as possible thereby abandoning the base in an attempt to capture the undecided who might support what was then the R Party.  This would pick up enough votes to win at least some elections, hopefully all of them.  The base, having nowhere to go, would still vote D as the lesser of two evils.  It makes sense on paper if you don't mind the eventual outcome and disregard potential negative consequences.
And a complete miscalculation of both how vicious the then-ascendent religious right-wing was, and of how appealing to voters that kind of an appeal could be.  I don't think the full impact of Nixon's Southern Strategy was appreciated, and I think they assumed the old Solid South would hold for at least another couple elections.  But by then, the party of Lincoln had very much become the party of Jefferson Davis, and they were not only perfectly willing, but demonstrably able to play on religious and racial fears and bigotry -- and to the shame not only of our nation but of our species, that works on many, many people.

The republicans reacted to the strategy, not by coming closer to the middle, but by turning farther to the right, because they had the foresight to understand that compromise didn't win elections.  Separation of ideology and demonization of the opposition is the key, which maintains the perception that the choices are clear, while pointing out the devastating consequences of the "wrong" choice.

The Democrats countered by running even faster to the right, but still hoping that the base would not abandon them, which most haven't really, because it's still about the lesser of evils.  BUT the unintended consequence is that a portion of the base is feeling disenfranchised, beaten, unrepresented, and consequently, losing interest, and with their stuffings knocked out of them by their own party, unresponsive.
And this is where we've ended up, with the leftmost of the two parties being what would be the mainstream center-right or conservative party in any Western European democracy, and the rightmost comparable only to extremist minor and fringe parties that border on organized hate groups -- and sometimes border on them from the inside rather than from the outer, slightly saner edges.  The modern GOP resembles UKIP far more than it does the Tories.  And unfortunately, the modern Democrats resemble the Tories more than they do Labour.

No point in addressing your other points, I think you're essentially on the mark.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"Confused? At a loss for what to do? Wow, sounds like you're human. Good luck." -- Welcome to Night Vale

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 07:59:31 PM »
A few years ago, right here in this forum, I heard members (now gone) talking about the brilliance of the Democratic strategy; Push the Republicans so far to the right that they fall off the cliff.
It wasn't that long ago that I would've naively supported that.  One would assume that with a midway position, the Democrat would bleed off conservative voters from the Republicans without alienating their own liberal base.  Deprived of much of their support, the Republicans would simply wither away.

This has not been the case.  Republicans have gone further to the Right and tapped into a vast, seemingly endless parade of imbeciles and reprobates.  Who knows how many of them started out that way and how many of them willingly followed far-right pundits into their current ideological cesspool.

And worse, Democrats have alienated some of their own base by leaning too far to the right.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 09:41:37 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2017, 08:41:25 PM »
I remember when I was younger listening to many of the lower class individuals around me and thinking, who on Earth would let them vote? They are so bigoted, ignorant, and prideful. Years later, I see they had voted in their very own mascot.

As much as I think the Constitution was a really good idea, it left out one very important detail -- ensuring an educated voter base. Casting a vote without any intelligence is about as practical as voting for a politician based on the color of his tie.
Quote from: Jakeness
if you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Offline Baruch

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2017, 11:10:07 PM »
I remember when I was younger listening to many of the lower class individuals around me and thinking, who on Earth would let them vote? They are so bigoted, ignorant, and prideful. Years later, I see they had voted in their very own mascot.

As much as I think the Constitution was a really good idea, it left out one very important detail -- ensuring an educated voter base. Casting a vote without any intelligence is about as practical as voting for a politician based on the color of his tie.

Free public education is supposed to take care of that.  But education doesn't supply any ideology.
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Offline reasonist

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2017, 12:06:56 AM »
Free public education is supposed to take care of that.  But education doesn't supply any ideology.

Or rational thought and good judgement :-)
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2017, 01:09:59 AM »
Free public education is supposed to take care of that.  But education doesn't supply any ideology.

There's more to education than just being taught from textbooks while in school. In the case of the voter, there is an extreme gap in knowledge about how the political system truly works and who the candidates are beyond their names and a brief summary of their political alliance. Rather, appeals to emotions are made to potential voters but information needed to make informed decisions is not readily supplied to the public. One must scrounge the internet to find the facts from multiple sources to get anything resembling a clear picture, when it'd be much more efficient and beneficial to have such information provided easily and comprehensively to the taxpaying public.

Lastly, the public's knowledge needs to be tested or else we'd be in a similar predicament as we currently find ourselves.
Quote from: Jakeness
if you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2017, 01:54:53 AM »
There's more to education than just being taught from textbooks while in school. In the case of the voter, there is an extreme gap in knowledge about how the political system truly works and who the candidates are beyond their names and a brief summary of their political alliance.
Pssh, I wish they could give a brief summary.  The state of education is so bad that we could be embroiled in a military conflict in a country for 3 years and only a little over a third of respondents could find it on a map.  You could ask people if they want to bomb Agrabah and a somewhat sizable number of them would say yes.

This level of ignorance wouldn't be so bad if it weren't often combined with a disinterest in actually knowing the facts.  That and the sheer persistence of disinformation, like the idea that vaccines cause autism.

Quote
Rather, appeals to emotions are made to potential voters but information needed to make informed decisions is not readily supplied to the public. One must scrounge the internet to find the facts from multiple sources to get anything resembling a clear picture, when it'd be much more efficient and beneficial to have such information provided easily and comprehensively to the taxpaying public.
Yeah, it doesn't help that the clear picture is cut up into a hundred soundbites and broadcast with so little context that it's more likely to mislead than inform.  Or that some little blurb is then proceeded by a "discussion panel" (with false balance, of course) consisting of histrionic adult-children with such a low combined IQ that it'd be illegal to execute them in most states.

Wow, venting feels really nice.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 02:08:15 AM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2017, 06:51:58 AM »
There's more to education than just being taught from textbooks while in school. In the case of the voter, there is an extreme gap in knowledge about how the political system truly works and who the candidates are beyond their names and a brief summary of their political alliance. Rather, appeals to emotions are made to potential voters but information needed to make informed decisions is not readily supplied to the public. One must scrounge the internet to find the facts from multiple sources to get anything resembling a clear picture, when it'd be much more efficient and beneficial to have such information provided easily and comprehensively to the taxpaying public.

Lastly, the public's knowledge needs to be tested or else we'd be in a similar predicament as we currently find ourselves.

If people understood (including people who post here) how politics actually works, you would never vote again.  You might even take up armed resistance ;-(  So it is important for fake voting and fake peace be maintained ... so that the peasants can be fleeced.  See my new post ... UK, like China, will give you all the Internet fit for you to read ... no posts allowed, unless vetted by a government official first (and only if you are a government employee and that is your job).

Athens sucked, this is Sparta!
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Offline Baruch

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2017, 06:52:44 AM »
Or rational thought and good judgement :-)

Ape men don't do that.  An irrational and self destructive species.  Wait for the next sentient to evolve.
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Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2017, 08:17:31 AM »
there have been a few vaccines capable of causing problems like autism because they use mercury to keep them sterile. (if you're trusting the A.M.A. to tell you the truth you're just another sheople; the american medical association is just an advertising agency for big pharma)

trsdf - agree with everything you said. Every year this country goes farther to the right; probably because thems that have the gold makes the rules.... I was really surprised to hear people calling Sanders and Warren far left when they sound like centrists to me.

I heard before that Reagan is too far to the left to pass the Republican primary, but it's the first time I heard about Nixon not being able to pass.

fyi Sanders was not an unknown figure. Only people that weren't paying attention would say that. Sanders has been answering questions on the radio since 2003. The way he talks hasn't changed in all that time.

If you look at voter turn-out, you have to conclude that a great many uneducated people are not voting. As for the people that did vote, talking about voting based on the color of the candidates tie is not far off. They hand-out these little cards in churches that say who to vote for if you're a republican... no thinking required, just vote for the one that stands against abortion and gays and you did your job until next time
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2017, 08:23:02 AM »
education doesn't supply any ideology.
don't worry DeVos will fix that
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Offline SGOS

Re: the next President of the United States
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2017, 09:44:54 AM »
Education.  What does that mean?  Why do authoritarian governments refer to brain washing as re-education?  When they say, "We are sending you to a re-education camp," people are alarmed, and for good reason.  "We are sending you to school," doesn't sound so bad, but "We are sending you to be re-schooled," implies something is critically wrong with the schooling.  You went to school, but you learned bad things, which the government sees fit to correct at all costs.  No one shows that kind of commitment to learning except zealots.  Creepy!