Author Topic: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument  (Read 735 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2017, 02:39:21 PM »
That would be nice.  In Alabama (when I was there), the Civil War never happened--it was the War of Northern Aggression.  I think the North was far, far too easy on the defeated Confederates as it is.  Wiping away all trace of the Confederacy would be a great thing!  In my book, Robert E. Lee was a traitor not a hero.

Contrarian ... and we should kill all the damn Yankees, all over again.  Lincoln was a tyrant, long live J W Booth!  ... not my personal opinion.  This is why we can't have nice things ... Damn Yankees!  Good thing the Dodgers moved to California.

So why Mr 1984 ... is it necessary to erase history.  You sound so ... diabolical.

I see Lee as a tragic hero.  I see Grant as a tragic hero.  I see Lincoln as a tragic hero.  I see Jefferson Davis as a tragic hero.  Maybe not ... Nathan Bedford Forrest ... because of his post Civil War resistance as a KKK founder.  Though in the war itself, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a more effective version of Jeb Stuart (a failed cavalryman ... in the same way that J A Custer was a failed cavalryman).  W T Sherman was an admirable if tragic military commander, though on a personal level he isn't SJW.  I can admire competent military men regardless ... same as I admire Rommel along with Patton.  I admire Genghis Khan ... though he was a genocidal maniac ... for simply being effective.  Iranians might feel about Alexander, the same way Chinese would feel about Genghis.

So basically you only like Gandhi?  I know things about him that aren't admirable at all.  But I can still admire him.  And yes, Lee killed more Americans on American soil than any other military commander, other than Grant who was a close second.  But speaking of Other ... I suppose you think that Southern folk are under-menschen who should be exterminated?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 04:46:26 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 02:40:16 PM »
Well, people have dug up civil war dead and reburied them in unmarked graves, taken down monuments everywhere, etc.  Soon there will be no trace of the civil war.  At that point, since all remnants have disappeared then it will not have happened.

We been infiltrated by Culture Marxists!
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2017, 02:41:50 PM »
I guess now the Civil War didn't happen.

Wait till the British Are Coming, the British Are Coming .. erasing all evidence of the American Revolution and the USA.  Tea and crumpets, anyone?
שלום

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2017, 05:09:07 PM »
Contrarian ... and we should kill all the damn Yankees, all over again.  Lincoln was a tyrant, long live J W Booth!  ... not my personal opinion.  This is why we can't have nice things ... Damn Yankees! 

You sound like you live in Alabama.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2017, 10:04:39 PM »
You sound like you live in Alabama.

Not really, but as Jewish, I can't seriously take anyone as sub-human or super-human ... I know where that leads.  I wouldn't want to be in Lees position, being interviewed by Lincoln, asked to be the lead general of the Union army.  Lee made a mistake, but I realize I could make the same mistake.  Historically, there is nothing wrong with slavery.  And in wage and debt slavery (the Union kind) it isn't even yet against the law.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2017, 02:42:57 AM »
In most nations, the confederate leaders and generals would have been tried and hanged for treason.  They committed treason.  Forbearance and a desire to heal the wounds of war prevented that.  I am a decendant of Yankee abolitionists but have lived in both Massachusetts and Virginia (and took Virginia History for 4 years in school there).

The rebellion ended.  The Lost Cause will not be renewed.  The argument was settled.  Let the war be relegated to history.  But don't leave confederate statues around glorifying the treason.

I say this because too many other cultures drag their past hatreds and anger of centuries past into the present.  You can see it everywhere.  It need not continue here. With the logic of The Lost Causers, we should hate the British and they us.  We don't.   Let the past become the past.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 09:12:32 AM »
In most nations, the confederate leaders and generals would have been tried and hanged for treason.  They committed treason.  Forbearance and a desire to heal the wounds of war prevented that.  I am a decendant of Yankee abolitionists but have lived in both Massachusetts and Virginia (and took Virginia History for 4 years in school there).

The rebellion ended.  The Lost Cause will not be renewed.  The argument was settled.  Let the war be relegated to history.  But don't leave confederate statues around glorifying the treason.

I say this because too many other cultures drag their past hatreds and anger of centuries past into the present.  You can see it everywhere.  It need not continue here. With the logic of The Lost Causers, we should hate the British and they us.  We don't.   Let the past become the past.

Just as Washington and the others were, and should have been.  Rs are now Ds and Ds are Rs.  Rebels were conservatives, now they are liberals.  The Civil War will next be in California, not Alabama.
שלום

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2017, 11:53:52 AM »
Do we have any monuments to Benedict Arnold?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2017, 12:07:30 PM »
Do we have any monuments to Benedict Arnold?

Do the English have monuments to George Washington?  To them, Benedict Arnold was the patriot, not George Washington.

Depends on the meaning of "we".  So Clinton.  Some folks in 1861 would have exterminated all the White folk in the South, and given it all to the freed slaves.  NE self-righteous folks are like that, John Brown lies mouldering in his grave and all that ... and Battle Hymn of the Republic.  Lincoln was a better man than that, he would have found another way to get rid of slavery, to solve the secession issue first.  And he held no hatred in his heart.  Yes, people we don't like are humans too .. even Marxists and Nazis.  Not saying those people are easy to like, or that you shouldn't oppose what they stand for.
שלום

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2017, 12:33:39 PM »
Do the English have monuments to George Washington?  To them, Benedict Arnold was the patriot, not George Washington.
Again with the Baruchistani.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2017, 12:49:52 PM »
Again with the Baruchistani.

The British still have stuff they took from the White House in the war of 1812.  When should we invade them?
שלום

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2017, 01:14:20 PM »
The British still have stuff they took from the White House in the war of 1812.  When should we invade them?
You go ahead. Meanwhile I have look up the number for Whitehall.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Shiranu

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2017, 02:59:36 PM »
Germany has done it's best to remove anything that even remotely seems promotive of the Nazis... yet I don't really see people saying, "Oh noes! These SJW are trying to make it like the Holocaust never happened!".

There are plenty of small Civil War museums, historical markers, etc. even here in Texas. That is where it belongs; not idiolized as something to proud of with a statue or a memorial (we have a plaque celebrating one of the slave owning Southern defenders on Texas State University that I think 99% of students have no idea exist), but in a museum where people will look back and say, "Wow, that was fucked up.". You don't have to romanticize a shitty history to remember it and learn from it.
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline Baruch

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2017, 03:39:13 PM »
There is a class of people who want to deny history, or simply erase it, because they can't stand the truth of it.  Holocaust denial is just one part of it.  But all statements of history, particularly monuments, are statements of politics.  Since the Southerners have defiled themselves by becoming Rs ... but redeemed it by making it into the party of Strom Thurmond (more or less) ... they have much to atone for since 1960, part of it being the R party today ;-(
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Louisiana Removes Confederate Monument
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2017, 03:07:07 AM »
The US Civil War was 150+ years ago.  It should be in the past.  Monuments celebrating the rebellion should be gone by now.  It suggests that too many people still think it was right.

But more importantly, the idea of "The Lost Cause" was dying out decades ago.  It has been revived more as a convenient political strategy than as a rational "States Rights" argument today.  As it was then a declaration that some people should be enslaved (read the "Declarations Of Succession" of most Southern States if you doubt that), it remains today a statement of White Supremacy. 

Skin color is irrelevant.  My skin is pale because my ancestors moved to locations of low sunlight and those who had the least melanin got the most sunlight.  It is all just sunlight from where your ancestors lived.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950