Author Topic: The Object and The Hazard  (Read 1039 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2017, 04:49:48 AM »
Your acknowledgement  of a source does not make it so.  That is simply your belief.  Look Pops, you make the assumption that most other theists make--that I popped out of my mother an atheist and have simply been too busy or uninterested to look for meaning and purpose--in everything.  And you further assume that only theists like you have enough intelligence to figure things out. And you expect me to bow to your greater intellect--and even more importantly, to you greater belief and faith for the Truth has been revealed to you and it should be evident that that is so.  Simply take your word and be 'saved' or at least in the know.  Well, Pops, I'd like to make a request--one made to me by my DI in basic training all the time--get you head out of your ass!!!

I have spent a life time searching for meaning, purpose and Truth.  I have examined many many avenues.  I've overturned such rocks as two christian churches and was the board president in one.  I turned over the meditation rock--the new age rock--the astrology rock--graphology rock--and some others I've forgotten about.  What it comes down to Pops, is that nature is what is.  There is no supernatural stuff--no spirits--no god(s)--no Jesus or any other savior.  There is only one savior and that is you--and only for yourself.  We live, we experience life, we die.  That's it.  I have asked you time and again for proof that that is not so.  All you can come up with is personal experience--yours or others.  That is not proof.  So, get your head out of your ass and give me some proof!

There is not proof of a deity from theists, there never will be one, and there cannot be one.

They chase a will-of-the-wisp, a gaslight in the swamp, a cloud in the sky.  I understand what they WANT, but it isn't there to find.  And so many waste the only existence they have seeking more than that.

They have the right to seek something that doesn't exist.  But that right ends at the tip of their noses.  They do NOT have the right to try and force me to live THEIR fantasy, THEIR dreams, THEIR hopes.

When I watch a fantasy movie, I allow the created world they provide to be real for a time.  But when the movie is over, so is the created reality.  Theists don't do that.  They persist.  They not only think it is true for themselves, but they demand it must also be true for all other people.  This is where they fail.

This is where they will always fail until the last one dies just like the lat believer in a flat earth died.  We just have to wait them out and hope they don't destroy us in some theistically-created end-of-world scenario first.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2017, 05:35:27 AM »
Cave bear - I really like this last post except for the very last bit.  I didn't give it a like, because I don't want you to melt like the wicket witch ;-)

On the other hand, if you look at yourself in the mirror ... honestly ... you won't see an Eloi, you will see a Morlock.  There are only Morlocks here.
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Offline SGOS

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2017, 08:51:56 AM »
When I watch a fantasy movie, I allow the created world they provide to be real for a time.  But when the movie is over, so is the created reality.  Theists don't do that.  They persist.  They not only think it is true for themselves, but they demand it must also be true for all other people.
I've had this thought also, but never thought about confirming it's accuracy.  In my small circle of acquaintances, I have noticed a correlation between deep religious belief and a dislike of science fiction/fantasy.  I don't know if this sample is representative of the whole or not, but the correlation I make is sometimes identified by a hostile rejection of fantasy as "unworthy child's play."  It seems odd that such a definitive rejection occurs in the presence of their own religious fantasies of demons, angels, seers of the future, miraculous conjurings of holy men, and an Iron Man like protector.

Like you, I immensely enjoy fantasy.  It appears throughout the ages in literature, film, and art and is taught in advanced courses in higher institutions of learning.  It's not that I wish to deny the religious their fantasy, but it perplexes me how they can reject common fantasy, while immersing themselves so whole heartedly in that one particular fantasy they believe not only as real, but is at the same time, is the one ultimate truth.

For things which cannot be proven or things that are beyond understanding, it seems that a typical response would be a bit of manageable confusion, as one files it away for possible future consideration, or it may be identified as an interesting myth, or even a blissful thought.  But whole hearted unsupported adoption of the incomprehensible fantasy as ultimate truth is an extreme reaction.  And when it happens in the face of outright often hostile rejection of less favored fantasies, it is perplexing.

OK, one more try and explaining my reaction to the phenomenon.  It's like there can be no acceptance of fantasy, because fantasy is morally wrong.  Something with the nature of fantasy can only be viewed as certifiably real, or certifiably false, and in addition it must be judged and subsequently embraced whole heartedly or thrown into a category of thoughts that are worthy of contempt.

Offline Baruch

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2017, 01:11:48 PM »
SGOS - yes ... obsession is bad for you.  And some religious folks are obsessed (religious folks are the majority).  So take fantasy and add obsession ... a superb analysis!

I do like science fiction ... but have seen enough in 6 decades ... and I am religious.  I am the exception that proves your rule.

In general nobody likes contrary evidence to their one trick pony.  Hence the rejection of science by those religious who are educated enough to know that science exists.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2017, 05:12:08 AM »


OK, one more try and explaining my reaction to the phenomenon.  It's like there can be no acceptance of fantasy, because fantasy is morally wrong.  Something with the nature of fantasy can only be viewed as certifiably real, or certifiably false, and in addition it must be judged and subsequently embraced whole heartedly or thrown into a category of thoughts that are worthy of contempt.

Is it possible that, if the religious accept other fantasies as even temporarily real, it equates fantasy with their own beliefs?  In other words, if they accept one bit of fantasy, it conflates to their own?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2017, 07:05:55 AM »
Is it possible that, if the religious accept other fantasies as even temporarily real, it equates fantasy with their own beliefs?  In other words, if they accept one bit of fantasy, it conflates to their own?

A great idea.
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Offline SGOS

Re: The Object and The Hazard
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2017, 07:42:31 AM »
Is it possible that, if the religious accept other fantasies as even temporarily real, it equates fantasy with their own beliefs?  In other words, if they accept one bit of fantasy, it conflates to their own?
Thanks for articulating that.  It is exactly what I was trying to say, and while I was saying it, I knew I wasn't doing it very well.