Author Topic: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...  (Read 689 times)

Offline Baruch (OP)

Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« on: April 13, 2017, 10:34:06 PM »
http://philosopher.io/Atheism-Fundamentalism-Paul-Tillich-s-God-Part-1

http://philosopher.io/Atheism-Fundamentalism-Paul-Tillich-s-God-Part-2

Based on an comparison of the 60s theologian, Tillich vs the New Atheists.  I found a typo in the second part ... I am so sharp ;-)

Or to make it even shorter, in my own choice of words .. each human being is an incarnate multiverse ... aka demigod.
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 04:06:52 AM »
Interesting ideas. Makes me wonder if being is quantatative. As in can ones quantity of presence increase and decrease? What about intergrity of being vs flakyness? Looking at the atomic matter that makes up the space of my body, it's 99.999999....% not being there, only tiny amounts of actual stuffness fly around in vast nested probability fields. I would imagine absolute being as all of that space occupied by stuffness.

Like the alleged singularity before spacial inflation, that would be absolute being.

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 07:19:19 AM »
Interesting ideas. Makes me wonder if being is quantatative. As in can ones quantity of presence increase and decrease? What about intergrity of being vs flakyness? Looking at the atomic matter that makes up the space of my body, it's 99.999999....% not being there, only tiny amounts of actual stuffness fly around in vast nested probability fields. I would imagine absolute being as all of that space occupied by stuffness.

Like the alleged singularity before spacial inflation, that would be absolute being.

You have intuition.  Can you predict stock prices too?  Here is a useful metaphor, but it plays to the usual mistakes ... the absent G-d.  In eyesight, we have the figure/ground problem.  Show someone one of these made up scenes, and usually their visual habit only lets them see the figure, not the ground.  So why yes, think of the tiny bits of matter as temporality/actuality and the vast space/time in between as eternity/potentiality ... and you would be pretty close to a physical metaphor for the metaphysics that is going on.  Unfortunately reality doesn't have integrity ... proof? ... politicians exist.
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 04:34:54 PM »
You have intuition.  Can you predict stock prices too?  Here is a useful metaphor, but it plays to the usual mistakes ... the absent G-d.  In eyesight, we have the figure/ground problem.  Show someone one of these made up scenes, and usually their visual habit only lets them see the figure, not the ground.  So why yes, think of the tiny bits of matter as temporality/actuality and the vast space/time in between as eternity/potentiality ... and you would be pretty close to a physical metaphor for the metaphysics that is going on.  Unfortunately reality doesn't have integrity ... proof? ... politicians exist.
I rarely focus on societal scale information, too small, shifty and highly temporal...here one day, gone before the end of it. As if it was never there.

I would argue reality is highly integral or else math would not be so reliably predictive of physical phenomenon. Politicians don't have integrity because they are not real ;)

As the the invisibility of the rest of reality, that's an easy one; of the total electromagnetic spectrum our eyes registers only about .0035% But I'm not looking for God in all this creation...I'm discerning a finger print/signature....

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 12:16:45 AM »
This is why politicians can't make budgets.  Arithmetic requires integrity, and accounting requires arithmetic.  QED ... there are no good Congressional budgets.
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 12:19:44 AM »
I love accounting! Especially for the quark spin relationships in protons and neutrons.

 Second only to accounting for the dark energy expensive constant and dark matter ratio to regular matter in each universe.

A good Logos is a comprehensive and predictively accurate Logos ;-)

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 12:31:06 AM »
I love accounting! Especially for the quark spin relationships in protons and neutrons.

 Second only to accounting for the dark energy expensive constant and dark matter ratio to regular matter in each universe.

A good Logos is a comprehensive and predictively accurate Logos ;-)

Don't tell the folks who think that the hidden hand of capitalism will always guarantee abundant and cheap energy sources.  Accounting fraud that.
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 12:34:45 AM »
Don't tell the folks who think that the hidden hand of capitalism will always guarantee abundant and cheap energy sources.  Accounting fraud that.
Would a quantum implosion free energy device help?  *hiding* wtf am I thinking, there's no hiding on the internets...

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 12:44:40 AM »
Would a quantum implosion free energy device help?  *hiding* wtf am I thinking, there's no hiding on the internets...

Well I haven't seen any fake studies by fraudsters, of employing quantum entanglement and the Higgs boson field, to produce Cold Fusion (tm) ... but it should be coming along any day now.  Remember, technology will save you from all the distraction and detritus that technology generates (cough, cough).
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 09:11:41 AM »
I rarely focus on societal scale information, too small, shifty and highly temporal...here one day, gone before the end of it. As if it was never there.

I would argue reality is highly integral or else math would not be so reliably predictive of physical phenomenon.

I find it interesting that both you and I view the same universe, yet come to almost opposite conclusions.  You view it as part of the totality of god and I view it as absolute proof there is no god.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 10:04:20 AM »
I find it interesting that both you and I view the same universe, yet come to almost opposite conclusions.  You view it as part of the totality of god and I view it as absolute proof there is no god.

There is sensation and there is perception.  But measurement requires some conceptualization ... there are no truly raw measurements.  It is primarily the perception that differs from person to person, and the more abstract the concept, the greater the deviation from person to person ... naturally.  You still hold to the shibboleth of objectivity ... a habit I have managed to break only recently.  But many years ago, I had started with the Objectivism of Ayn Rand.  That took a lot of electroshock therapy to get over from ;-))  So I differ from both you and Ananta.  Ananta hasn't yet realized that Pythagoras was Jim Jones.  Don't drink the retsina!
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 02:35:26 PM »
I find it interesting that both you and I view the same universe, yet come to almost opposite conclusions.  You view it as part of the totality of god and I view it as absolute proof there is no god.
I "look" at a lot of things hidden from direct view...like poly-galactic distribution, the cosmic microwave background radiation, the whir of quarks and virtual particles in atom nuclei, and the structural arrangement of DNA. Also helps to be familiar with the standard model of particle generation to know what else this universe is capable of supporting.

When looking for the signature of God, it helps to compare patterns vertically through the scales.

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 03:44:57 PM »
I "look" at a lot of things hidden from direct view...like poly-galactic distribution, the cosmic microwave background radiation, the whir of quarks and virtual particles in atom nuclei, and the structural arrangement of DNA. Also helps to be familiar with the standard model of particle generation to know what else this universe is capable of supporting.

When looking for the signature of God, it helps to compare patterns vertically through the scales.

"through the scales" ... yes, the real harmony of the spheres ;-)
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Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 05:42:16 PM »
"through the scales" ... yes, the real harmony of the spheres ;-)
Once you get out of the belly of the leviathan, things get much easier.  It's a big fish, gotta spear it! ;)

The harmony of the spheres I discern flow between the infinite spherical universes in a metaversal stack. It stretches forever horizontally, and is finite vertically.  The same pattern of flows exist around each universe. Geometric fine-tuning.

Re: Some actual theology relevant to Drew's argument ...
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 12:10:45 AM »
I "look" at a lot of things hidden from direct view...like poly-galactic distribution, the cosmic microwave background radiation, the whir of quarks and virtual particles in atom nuclei, and the structural arrangement of DNA. Also helps to be familiar with the standard model of particle generation to know what else this universe is capable of supporting.

When looking for the signature of God, it helps to compare patterns vertically through the scales.
God is a fiction.  So, you then are combing through the various authors of these works of fiction looking for a signature of a fictional character?  That is like looking for the signature of Bugs Bunny.  Neither astronomy nor physics lead me to think there is a god. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?