Author Topic: Found another illogical argument  (Read 383 times)

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2017, 08:26:11 PM »
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Ah, yes.  Be still and know god.  I still prefer 'let go and let god'.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2017, 08:34:18 PM »
Ah, yes.  Be still and know god.  I still prefer 'let go and let god'.

Sorry, if G-d is reality (and as a pantheist like Ananta I think G-d is reality) ... then there is no way for G-d to let you go, or anyone else.  Given that you are real.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 06:13:47 AM by Baruch »
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Offline fencerider (OP)

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2017, 01:33:17 AM »
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.
you and your psychosis

Offline Cavebear

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2017, 04:44:42 AM »
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.

Wow, I really thought "Pan" meant the little annoying satyr until you mentioned Neverland.  Just goes to show how references matter.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Atheon

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2017, 04:28:55 AM »
Oh and which Bible? The 66 book abridged version or the over 600 book ancient version?
There's an unedited Director's Cut? Cool beans!
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Baruch

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2017, 06:15:20 AM »
So you're a Pan-theist? Didnt that guy create a whole island with just his imagination? I guess being the Pan-god explains why he could fly anywhere he wanted to, and things always went his way in Neverland. But that doesn't explain you; unless you're one of the Lost Boys.

You are never going to catch your wayward shadow that way, Peter.
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Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2017, 07:01:21 PM »
Sounds like a lot of walking around...I'll just be still and know ;)
Sounds like geocaching to me. There probably is a lot of walking around involved, though.
God Not Found
"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2017, 07:36:08 PM »
Of course the calendar and our clocks are simply conventions we use to track what we call time.  These conventions are not fiction, for they are based on fact.

Not sure if I'm misreading this, but time is a real thing. If it weren't then the current theory of gravity would be false because there would not be correct; however, the time that we use to measure the universe very much just a convention that have applied to it. Time is relative after all, and the way that we use measure it in is doubly so.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2017, 07:47:17 PM »
Time is indeed relative. I recall reading (somewhere) that, due to the weak gravitational field there, deep inside a giant cosmic void the passage of time would be different than it is in the more dense regions of space, such that the universe would actually seem to be older than we perceive it to be. I don't remember just how much older, but it was quite a bit, I think.

God Not Found
"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2017, 08:42:58 PM »
Time is indeed relative. I recall reading (somewhere) that, due to the weak gravitational field there, deep inside a giant cosmic void the passage of time would be different than it is in the more dense regions of space, such that the universe would actually seem to be older than we perceive it to be. I don't remember just how much older, but it was quite a bit, I think.

If you standing near a very heavy object in space such as a black hole, you would experience a shortening of time: so much so that time would actually speed up in a sense and you, basically just your atoms and fundamental particles at that point, would experience the end of the universe in what would appear to be a fraction of a second. That is one of the major parts of general relativity, the second most important part of the theory which is connected to the first is that as velocity increases, time will rapidly slow down. If an object were traveling at the speed of light since the big bang, it would appear as if the universe had just started and then all of a sudden it arrived at a destination 13.6 billion years later, without it actually experiencing that time.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2017, 08:57:46 PM »
Not sure if I'm misreading this, but time is a real thing. If it weren't then the current theory of gravity would be false because there would not be correct; however, the time that we use to measure the universe very much just a convention that have applied to it. Time is relative after all, and the way that we use measure it in is doubly so.
I quite agree that time is a real thing.  But is most useful when we can chop it up into bits and pieces we can understand.  Why does an hour have 60 minutes--etc,?  Just a convenience for us. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2017, 09:18:03 PM »
Why does an hour have 60 minutes--etc,?  Just a convenience for us.

This is why I said the way we measure time relative.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2017, 11:10:13 PM »
This is why I said the way we measure time relative.

When people think time is real, they are thinking of Newtonian time, absolute time.  In general, our sense of objective reality, is the idea that there are absolute things, usually quantifiable, that repetitive observation/experiment can agree on the value of (at a given point in space and time per relativity).  What distinguishes Einstein from Newton, is that parenthetical ... for Newton, objectivity is the same at all points in space and at all times.  That simply isn't true in actual observation and experiment, though it is almost so in most circumstances.  Indirectly, because the observer is choosing the point in space and moment in time to make the measurement, the observer is interacting with reality in a non-objective way ... and in QM, the observer yet again is an unavoidable interference in our Newtonian sense of objectivity.

So if we mean by real, that which is real in spite of people ... then there is no such reality in human experience, because it is a self contradiction.
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Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2017, 11:15:54 PM »
Indirectly, because the observer is choosing the point in space and moment in time to make the measurement, the observer is interacting with reality in a non-objective way ... and in QM, the observer yet again is an unavoidable interference in our Newtonian sense of objectivity.

So if we mean by real, that which is real in spite of people ... then there is no such reality in human experience, because it is a self contradiction.

You jumped from how time works to reality being false really fast. I like it.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Found another illogical argument
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2017, 12:22:31 AM »
You jumped from how time works to reality being false really fast. I like it.

It is really hard to move from several argument points to a coherent picture that ties them into a system.  But for most people here, they are unconsciously Newtonian and Hobbesian or Lockean (depending on who they stand on authoritarianism, though both are humanistic and materialist).  They are 18th century Enlightenment .. not even ready for the 19th century.
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