Author Topic: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier  (Read 702 times)

Offline SGOS (OP)

Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« on: April 11, 2017, 10:12:27 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/

After nickel/dime baggage strategies, crappy service, overcrowding, and overbooking, now United Airlines is dragging passengers off the plane when they refuse to give up their overbook seat.  Apparently, they are within their rights.  Of course they are, as corporations write the laws for the congressmen that pass the laws, so we're good, right?  Passengers don't think so, but fuck the passengers.  The rub is that now investors are selling their stocks, and UAL has tumbled on the market.  The next concern is whether passengers will stop booking with United.

I'm not really ranting.  Well, I am, but that's a minor part of the thing for me.  I thought the shock and horror of the passengers filming the event was entertaining, and that poor guy running around the cabin crying that he just wanted to go home.  He looked like a child needing to pee.  This is better than reality TV.

As flying keeps going down hill, I've been wondering what the next thing airlines will to do take advantage of customers.  I have an idea though, why not quit overbooking passengers?  Yeah, I know, stupid idea.  That takes the whole business plan in the wrong direction.  Dragging a guy off the plane and creating a media frenzy is just a minor hiccup.  I mean why the Hell should a corporation care about being nice to their customers?  What would be the point in that?

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 10:19:09 AM »
Corps are people too.  But they are people who have the money and the pockets of the politicians to make the laws they want.  After all, the good ole USA is really the United Corporations of America.  They are the only people who really count.



Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 10:28:59 AM »
Remember kids, corporations and politicians care about the peasants....um I mean regular working joe as well! Just ignore everything that says otherwise.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 11:32:50 AM »
As flying keeps going down hill, I've been wondering what the next thing airlines will to do take advantage of customers.  I have an idea though, why not quit overbooking passengers?
They overbook because a certain percentage of ticketholders are going to be no-shows, like that young couple who are fated to be together and Kate is about to board a plane to move to Paris with Pierre, but Jack races to the airport to profess his love at the last second.  He probably should have used his phone or professed his love much, much earlier and he's lucky as hell that he got the fastest cab in town, but I digress.

The airline could prevent this sort of overbooking situation by:

1) Simply not overbooking flights (the drawback is flights with empty seats, hurting profit margins)
2) When passengers on overbooked flights check in, they’re asked what the dollar value of the travel voucher they would accept as compensation for giving up their seats.  When the flight is overbooked, some of these people are called up (low bids first) and offered a travel voucher in exchange for their ticket.  Incidentally, this is how Delta does things.
3) Beat the shit out of a random passenger and toss him out like a mid-January Christmas tree.

If you picked 3, you're either a United Airlines employee or a sadist.  Come fly the friendly skies, but when you're on the ground, you're cruisin' for a bruisin'.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 11:43:28 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 11:47:27 AM »
4) Blow up the plane with everyone in it. Deny there was ever a plane. Deny those people existed. Deny that you're a plane company. Deny that planes exist.
Some people need to be beaten with a smart stick.

Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid!

Kein Mitlied F�r Die Mehrheit!

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 12:05:32 PM »
Over booking flights ought to be illegal, but it isn't. When someone buys a ticket they are entering into a contract with the airline. The fine print in the contract says the airline overbooks flights, and you can get bumped if they don't have enough seats for everyone. If you don't agree with the terms of the contact don't buy the ticket. Involuntary bumps happen 40 to 50 thousand times a year so the possibility is real. Voluntary bumps are far more common than that.

When you buy a ticket the airline is obligated to get you to your destination. Just not necessarily on the flight you bought your ticket for. The longer it takes past your original scheduled flight the more monetary compensation you are entitled to when you get bumped. But when you get bumped you have no legal recourse to not being bumped. That's what your contract with the airline says. You have to get off the plane if the airline tells you to. If you don't the police jack booted thugs are going to drag your tantrum throwing ass off the plane. Anyone that expects to be treated differently by the police jack booted thugs hasn't been paying attention lately.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Atheon

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 12:06:25 PM »
Welcome to TrumpMerica.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Online Baruch

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 01:37:03 PM »
Welcome to TrumpMerica.

Been going on since before the last election.  The last good plane flight I took was in 1983.  Ronald Reagan started the destruction.
שלום

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 01:42:53 PM »
Over booking flights ought to be illegal, but it isn't.
I have mixed feelings about this.

On one hand, it seems pretty straightforward to not sell what you don't have.  You don't sell 50 new 4k-resolution TVs when you only have 45 in stock.  And if your concert can seat a maximum of 200 people, you can't sell 220 tickets.  At least not afaik.

On the other hand, when you're providing a service and you can reliably predict a certain number of no-shows, it's inefficient to have empty seats.  ISPs used to provide internet access to people knowing full well that their network couldn't possibly handle everyone connecting to the internet at the same time.  But they don't all connect at the same time, so the network works fine most of the time.  If the ISP had to set aside a certain amount of bandwidth to every customer, the bandwidth requirements for the network would balloon to the point of being unfeasible.  Or at least unfeasible at the current price.

With airlines, it seems like some amount of overbooking is practically unavoidable.  What is avoidable is how often it happens and how they handle it when it does happen.  People should talk with their wallet and simply not buy from terrible companies.

And the crazy thing about this United Airlines fiasco is that this particular flight wasn't actually overbooked.  They needed the seats to transport United Airlines personnel to work at another airport.  Imho, the employees should've just gotten on another flight when it was clear that not enough people were going to voluntarily leave the flight.  Besides, any competent person in charge wouldn't have let the situation escalate to the point that it did.  United Airlines is going to lose a lot of customers over this, as they should.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 11:13:00 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 01:47:42 PM »
I'm sorry, but as a veteran of eighteen hour flights from Sicily to Spain I have to say this is not "shittier".
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Atheon

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 01:57:34 PM »
Overbooking has been standard practice for decades, and the vast majority of the time it works out. There's a consistently predictable rate of no-shows. On occasion, though, everyone shows up. When that happens, seating priority is given to those who re-confirmed their flights in advance. Prior to boarding, the passengers are informed of the overbooking status and are asked for volunteers to give up their seats for compensation (usually around $400), and they'll be put on a later flight. Almost all the time, someone volunteers. (I volunteer whenever the opportunity arises; it's a great way to make money! One time I was put on another flight, and it so happened that the original flight ended up being delayed, so I arrived home earlier and richer than expected!)

I have nothing against overbooking, because it is mathematically sound, and when done right, socially acceptable.

They fucked up this time in the following ways:
1. The matter was not settled before boarding. This is big. Once you're seated, you're seated.
2. The people who were to take the seats were employees, not other passengers. Passengers should come first.
3. They did not consider other, more reasonable options. The employees could have been put on a different flight, or even sent by car. (I used to live in Louisville, and often drove to Chicago... no big deal.)
4. They removed the passenger using physical force, injuring him.
5. Their post-incident PR work sucked anuses.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:03:16 PM by Atheon »
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 02:26:23 PM »
5. Their post-incident PR work sucked anuses.
That doesn't matter when you can silence criticism.

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 03:08:18 PM »
Overbooking has been standard practice for decades, and the vast majority of the time it works out. There's a consistently predictable rate of no-shows. On occasion, though, everyone shows up. When that happens, seating priority is given to those who re-confirmed their flights in advance. Prior to boarding, the passengers are informed of the overbooking status and are asked for volunteers to give up their seats for compensation (usually around $400), and they'll be put on a later flight. Almost all the time, someone volunteers. (I volunteer whenever the opportunity arises; it's a great way to make money! One time I was put on another flight, and it so happened that the original flight ended up being delayed, so I arrived home earlier and richer than expected!)

I have nothing against overbooking, because it is mathematically sound, and when done right, socially acceptable.

They fucked up this time in the following ways:
1. The matter was not settled before boarding. This is big. Once you're seated, you're seated.
2. The people who were to take the seats were employees, not other passengers. Passengers should come first.
3. They did not consider other, more reasonable options. The employees could have been put on a different flight, or even sent by car. (I used to live in Louisville, and often drove to Chicago... no big deal.)
4. They removed the passenger using physical force, injuring him.
5. Their post-incident PR work sucked anuses.

about 4. United didn't remove anyone by force. They asked four passengers to get off the plane. When one of the four refused United notified airport security, and airport security forcibly removed him. Airport security isn't United. They are unarmed Chicago Aviation Security Officers. They work for the airport authority not United. They are empowered under the law to detain passengers.
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2017, 03:19:37 PM »
I have an idea though, why not quit overbooking passengers?
It would certainly make standby flying a lot easier.

Offline SGOS (OP)

Re: Plane Travel Just Got Shittier
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2017, 05:52:18 PM »
They overbook because a certain percentage of ticketholders are going to be no-shows
I wonder how many of those no shows get their money back, and the airline simply sells the same seat twice.  I've not made a flight on two occasions.  One time, I received nothing, so an empty seat was still producing cash flow.  The other time was even more offensive, I was offered credit valued at the price of my ticket, but penalized $100 for canceling my ticket.  When I tried to use the credit, I was only offered the tickets that I would never buy because cheaper tickets were available.  I decided it was too expensive to use the credit I had coming, and didn't book the flight, and the credit eventually expired.  They have their ways of squeezing you.  Flying at the last minute, they've got you over a barrel.  Cancel a flight for a ticket you paid for, and they've got you compromised and over a barrel.