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The reality that we'll die some day

Started by SoldierofFortune, April 06, 2017, 10:25:29 AM

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Ananta Shesha

Quote from: aitm on April 16, 2017, 09:29:03 PM
Even in "our" universe there is more "nothing" than there is something. One would assume that its easier to toss shit in than dig it out eh?
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?

Ananta Shesha

Quote from: Baruch on April 16, 2017, 09:49:45 PM
Impossible to think all-thingness .. you must have slipped a gear.
It's easy when you're used to thinking in terms of mass rather than space.

Another perspective bias of the human vehicle; we look out into space,  we think spatially, yet the thing doing the thinking is mass.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 17, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 17, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
only two choices?  Given that we are mere microns to our own solar system and it to the galaxy and it to the universe, your assumptions or mine are mere guesses. But by far the easiest, and laziest, is to give the credit to a great wizard. Yeah,  that's real logical there.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.

As a demigod, I came from my parents.  Before that I don't care too much.  But I don't think it was something from nothing, or order from chaos.  Maybe some grunting between cave man and cave woman ... is that chaos?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Space is not nothing.  It's space, which is actually something.  If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.

Ananta Shesha

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 17, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.

Sal1981

I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.

I was "dead" for billions of years and I will be dead for all time to come after my body (particularly my brain) ceases to function. There might be a simulacrum of me created after my death, but will that really be "me"?

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on April 18, 2017, 04:45:06 AM
Space is not nothing.  It's space, which is actually something.  If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.

Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place.  But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand, because time stops, to an external observer (which is the paradox).  There is no such thing, in cosmology, as an external observer ... but classical physics requires one ... but QM says, any observer messes with the results, and if there is no observer (Schrodinger's Cat) then nothing happens.  The reason why modern physics has conundrums, is because the human understanding of reality ... is ignorance.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 18, 2017, 06:15:02 AM

So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.

What a thing seems to be, depends only on POV.  In our POV, we exist .. in another POV, we might not.  In the past ... in the future ... we don't exist.  And per relativity, no POV is superior to another, just more or less convenient.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2017, 06:52:51 AM
Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place.  But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand,
Ha!  I've actually had that occur to me, but never articulated it quite like that.  A guy asked me once, "If you were looking back in time as far as possible with an "ultimate" telescope, what direction would you look if you wanted to see the singularity?"   The answer is of course, "any direction," since we are at the center of singularity.  How about from Mars?  Same answer.

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Sal1981 on April 18, 2017, 06:29:03 AM
I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.
"Seems to me, if you worry you suffer twice." Newt Scamander
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Mike Cl

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 18, 2017, 06:15:02 AM

So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.
That is your thought.

This is mine.  Each universe is formed from another via a black hole.  So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other.  And so on.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 18, 2017, 08:57:42 AM
That is your thought.

This is mine.  Each universe is formed from another via a black hole.  So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other.  And so on.
I'm a fan of the "Black hole => White hole" theory myself. The fun part for me is that at least the SMBHs would each give birth to a new universe and we have many of those big ass black holes  so there are countless new universes being formed from our universe, and that we're a legacy of a "higher" universe that spawned many universes.

Ooof, just got a little dizzy there.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

SGOS

The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing.  Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed.  What happened to what was left of the old universe?  Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.

Now I'm getting dizzy.