Author Topic: The reality that we'll die some day  (Read 1627 times)

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #150 on: April 17, 2017, 07:02:10 PM »
Even in "our" universe there is more "nothing" than there is something. One would assume that its easier to toss shit in than dig it out eh?
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #151 on: April 17, 2017, 07:05:39 PM »
Impossible to think all-thingness .. you must have slipped a gear.
It's easy when you're used to thinking in terms of mass rather than space.

 Another perspective bias of the human vehicle; we look out into space,  we think spatially, yet the thing doing the thinking is mass.

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #152 on: April 17, 2017, 09:24:45 PM »
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline aitm

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #153 on: April 17, 2017, 09:35:24 PM »
Which is more reasonable:  Something from nothing? Or a relative nothing space carved (vibrationally cavitated) out of something?
only two choices?  Given that we are mere microns to our own solar system and it to the galaxy and it to the universe, your assumptions or mine are mere guesses. But by far the easiest, and laziest, is to give the credit to a great wizard. Yeah,  that's real logical there.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #154 on: April 17, 2017, 10:34:55 PM »
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.

As a demigod, I came from my parents.  Before that I don't care too much.  But I don't think it was something from nothing, or order from chaos.  Maybe some grunting between cave man and cave woman ... is that chaos?
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #155 on: April 18, 2017, 04:45:06 AM »
Space is not nothing.  It's space, which is actually something.  If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #156 on: April 18, 2017, 06:15:02 AM »
More reasonable?  Not god.  The universe came from another via a black hole--it is a system that never ends.  Why not god?  The same problem exists for both--if god always was where did he come from?  And where did the first universe come from.  In either case there must have been a something from nothing happening.

So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.

Offline Sal1981

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #157 on: April 18, 2017, 06:29:03 AM »
I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.

I was "dead" for billions of years and I will be dead for all time to come after my body (particularly my brain) ceases to function. There might be a simulacrum of me created after my death, but will that really be "me"?
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #158 on: April 18, 2017, 06:52:51 AM »
Space is not nothing.  It's space, which is actually something.  If there isn't wasn't any space, then there would be nothing.

Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place.  But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand, because time stops, to an external observer (which is the paradox).  There is no such thing, in cosmology, as an external observer ... but classical physics requires one ... but QM says, any observer messes with the results, and if there is no observer (Schrodinger's Cat) then nothing happens.  The reason why modern physics has conundrums, is because the human understanding of reality ... is ignorance.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2017, 06:54:35 AM »

So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.

What a thing seems to be, depends only on POV.  In our POV, we exist .. in another POV, we might not.  In the past ... in the future ... we don't exist.  And per relativity, no POV is superior to another, just more or less convenient.
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2017, 07:54:33 AM »
Space exists, because you can't put everything in one place.  But per relativity, at the speed of light, everything is still at the initial singularity, waiting to expand,
Ha!  I've actually had that occur to me, but never articulated it quite like that.  A guy asked me once, "If you were looking back in time as far as possible with an "ultimate" telescope, what direction would you look if you wanted to see the singularity?"   The answer is of course, "any direction," since we are at the center of singularity.  How about from Mars?  Same answer.

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #161 on: April 18, 2017, 07:59:01 AM »
I fear death in that I fear the pain of dying.
"Seems to me, if you worry you suffer twice." Newt Scamander
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #162 on: April 18, 2017, 08:57:42 AM »

So you imagine an eternal return universe that expands then contracts to singularity to then bang big again?

There isn't anywhere else to be from...there is only here. Before the voided space of a universe is cavitated into being, all space is filled with absolute matter....quark soup. It's omnipresent. Inside a universe the material omnipresence is replaced with field omnipresence. The states are inverse of each other.
That is your thought.

This is mine.  Each universe is formed from another via a black hole.  So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other.  And so on.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #163 on: April 18, 2017, 09:14:38 AM »
That is your thought.

This is mine.  Each universe is formed from another via a black hole.  So, our universe will become energyless one day; but it will have given birth to at least one other.  And so on.
I'm a fan of the "Black hole => White hole" theory myself. The fun part for me is that at least the SMBHs would each give birth to a new universe and we have many of those big ass black holes  so there are countless new universes being formed from our universe, and that we're a legacy of a "higher" universe that spawned many universes.

Ooof, just got a little dizzy there.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: The reality that we'll die some day
« Reply #164 on: April 18, 2017, 10:10:09 AM »
The galaxy expands so far that fabric of space is stretched and stretched so thin that it eventually becomes nothing, true nothing, not the nothing of space, but the nothing part of nothing.  Now a new singularity has a place to expand and a new universe is formed.  What happened to what was left of the old universe?  Well there are still remnants left over, but by now, they are so far out there that they don't count.

Now I'm getting dizzy.