Author Topic: Tesla now worth more than Ford  (Read 3024 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 10:59:41 AM »
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That was the whole point of the OP. At it's current price Tesla's stock is now worth more than either Ford or GM. But if you compare the actual companies there is no comparison. Ford and GM are both profitable companies. Tesla is not. Ford and GM's assets dwarf Tesla's. Actual sales numbers aren't even on the same planet.
People are betting heavily that Tesla's model X is going to be a huge success. Unfortunately the model X doesn't even have to fail for Tesla's stock to tank. Just lower than anticipated sales could do it. If that happens a lot of people including me are going to lose money we can't afford to lose. Many of the people paying these astronomical prices for the stock are the fund managers that control our IRA's and 401K's.
I also suspect the reason for the media attention on this interpretation of the statistics, is for the paradoxical interest (everyone loves a paradox to the point that people gravitate to a paradox, even when it's inherently false, if not simply of no consequence).  Political ideologies love paradoxes, and love it when, true or false, they support the ideology.  Put a paradox in a headline, and people read the article.  Call it click bait.  Write a false paradox and people will believe it on the grounds that it's just too paradoxical not to be true.  It's a corollary of the "tell a lie big enough and people will believe it" principle of propaganda.  That's what makes this revelation by the media interesting.

Offline Hydra009

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2017, 11:52:36 AM »
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That was the whole point of the OP. At it's current price Tesla's stock is now worth more than either Ford or GM. But if you compare the actual companies there is no comparison. Ford and GM are both profitable companies. Tesla is not. Ford and GM's assets dwarf Tesla's. Actual sales numbers aren't even on the same planet.
True.  But investors are looking for future growth, not past/current numbers.  Investors see articles like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and probably salivate while reading.

Tesla has one great thing going for it:  PR.  Tesla's going to change the industry and the world.  Ford, not so much.  At least, that's the perception.

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 01:05:36 PM »
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Sorry. I left a number off of the Ford sales figure. Ford sold 2,617,000 vehicles last year. Not 617,000.

Certainly explains why Ford's F-150 pickup has been the best selling vehicle in the US for 35 straight years...

Look, I'm not trying to knock Tesla or pump up Ford. I've never owned a Ford. I probably never will, but I won't completely rule out the possibility of owning a Ford truck or an old Mustang one day. By contrast the new Tesla X (if they ever get around to making the damn thing) is definitely worth considering. But Ford's 2016 financial report lists $240 billion in assets and $143 billion in debts. Tesla's lists $8 billion in assets and $4 billion in debts. How the hell is a company that's never turned an annual profit worth more than a profitable company with more than 20 times the annual sales and net assets?

You don't understand finance, with fake FR money.  Without fake FR money the last several US administrations would have had to turn off the lights in DC and go home.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2017, 01:08:24 PM »
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That was the whole point of the OP. At it's current price Tesla's stock is now worth more than either Ford or GM. But if you compare the actual companies there is no comparison. Ford and GM are both profitable companies. Tesla is not. Ford and GM's assets dwarf Tesla's. Actual sales numbers aren't even on the same planet.

People are betting heavily that Tesla's model X is going to be a huge success. Unfortunately the model X doesn't even have to fail for Tesla's stock to tank. Just lower than anticipated sales could do it. If that happens a lot of people including me are going to lose money we can't afford to lose. Many of the people paying these astronomical prices for the stock are the fund managers that control our IRA's and 401K's.

Tesla is worth more, because they get unlimited free money from the Feds, just like Amazon, just like the rest of the MIC.  Tesla and Amazon are part of the MIC.  Ford and GM are not.  You can't compete with another company ... if they get free money, and you don't.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2017, 01:17:04 PM »
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True.  But investors are looking for future growth, not past/current numbers.  Investors see articles like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and probably salivate while reading.

Tesla has one great thing going for it:  PR.  Tesla's going to change the industry and the world.  Ford, not so much.  At least, that's the perception.

Financlal arbitrage is, depending on how you invest, you can make money if a company succeeds, or if it fails.  Same for countries.  The people shorting Germany or the US ... stand to make infinite money.  Hence their desire to intervene, to bring about their desired financial result (like the guys who died making winning trades in Tower 2 as Tower 1 was burning).
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Offline Johan

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 07:11:28 PM »
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That was the whole point of the OP. At it's current price Tesla's stock is now worth more than either Ford or GM. But if you compare the actual companies there is no comparison. Ford and GM are both profitable companies. Tesla is not. Ford and GM's assets dwarf Tesla's. Actual sales numbers aren't even on the same planet.

People are betting heavily that Tesla's model X is going to be a huge success. Unfortunately the model X doesn't even have to fail for Tesla's stock to tank. Just lower than anticipated sales could do it. If that happens a lot of people including me are going to lose money we can't afford to lose. Many of the people paying these astronomical prices for the stock are the fund managers that control our IRA's and 401K's.
Ford is making updated versions of the same vehicles they made 35 years ago. Tesla is making preliminary versions of the vehicles everyone will be driving 35 years from now.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 10:11:01 PM »
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Ford is making updated versions of the same vehicles they made 35 years ago. Tesla is making preliminary versions of the vehicles everyone will be driving 35 years from now.

How does Tesla survive, at a loss, year by year, for 35 years ... in the hope it will be profitable in the 36th year?  Only Uncle Sugar.
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Online PopeyesPappy

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2017, 10:39:42 PM »
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Ford is making updated versions of the same vehicles they made 35 years ago. Tesla is making preliminary versions of the vehicles everyone will be driving 35 years from now.

And GM is the world's leader in the development of fuel cells. A technology that is better suited to many of our transportation needs than Tesla's plug in electrics.

Tesla might actually be worth as much as Ford and GM one day, but right now they aren't. Their exaggerated stock price is a symptom of the speculative market many here bitch and moan about. The rich are getting richer on small movements in prices by buying low and selling high at high volumes. They are doing it at our expense too because the fund managers that control our retirement funds buying it from them with our money when prices are high and selling it to them again when prices drop. The corporations they work for don't care either because they are getting their cut no matter what.
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Offline Atheon

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2017, 11:13:02 PM »
Tesla is now in Taiwan. I saw a new dealership and a big promotional event downtown.

I also saw someone driving one in a Hong Kong neighborhood.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2017, 12:22:29 AM »
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Tesla is now in Taiwan. I saw a new dealership and a big promotional event downtown.

I also saw someone driving one in a Hong Kong neighborhood.

If you saw someone on a horse ... does that mean we are going back to the Middle Ages?

Meanwhile ... please duck.  China may invade Taiwan and Korea in the next week.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2017, 07:43:37 AM »
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How does Tesla survive, at a loss, year by year, for 35 years ... in the hope it will be profitable in the 36th year?  Only Uncle Sugar.
From an accounting standpoint, it doesn't make any difference where the data that goes in the black column comes from.  It's all profit, and is figured into the business strategy.  I doubt that the banks would have gone on their irresponsible bender, if the biggest corporate bailout in history had not already been part of their business model and listed under expected earnings.  Everyone likes to portray the bankers as incompetent fools.  Maybe they were that dumb, or maybe they were that smart.

All of the mansions now open and on display to tourists in Newport Rhode Island were built by titans that made their wealth from the government.  You want to make a lot of money?  Deal with the customer that has the deepest pockets.  These guys, while crooked as Hell, at least provided products and service to the government.  They were not creative enough to think of ways to profit from the government by losing money.  It takes a banker for that.  Tesla is one the one wearing the white hat.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2017, 04:44:30 PM »
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From an accounting standpoint, it doesn't make any difference where the data that goes in the black column comes from.  It's all profit, and is figured into the business strategy.  I doubt that the banks would have gone on their irresponsible bender, if the biggest corporate bailout in history had not already been part of their business model and listed under expected earnings.  Everyone likes to portray the bankers as incompetent fools.  Maybe they were that dumb, or maybe they were that smart.

All of the mansions now open and on display to tourists in Newport Rhode Island were built by titans that made their wealth from the government.  You want to make a lot of money?  Deal with the customer that has the deepest pockets.  These guys, while crooked as Hell, at least provided products and service to the government.  They were not creative enough to think of ways to profit from the government by losing money.  It takes a banker for that.  Tesla is one the one wearing the white hat.

I have trouble seeing Tesla as bringing in the revenue of Ford.  But that's what IBM said before Microsoft...  And I'm not shopping for a Ford these days.  Actually, I would like to buy a Delorean SUV hybrid, but you can't buy what they don't sell.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online PopeyesPappy

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2018, 07:12:20 AM »


Quote
Tesla stock slid 8% on Tuesday following a string of bad news for the electric car maker, including the National Transportation Safety Board's announcement that it's investigating a fatal crash involving a Tesla vehicle last week in California.

...

A bearish analyst note also dragged down the stock. Citi analysts said their research shows Model 3 competition is heating up and could indicate near-term risk for shares, according to CNBC.

John Thompson, CEO of hedge fund Vilas Capital Management, told MarketWatch on Tuesday that Tesla will be bankrupt within four months unless chief executive Elon Musk "pulls a rabbit out of his hat."

"Companies eventually have to make a profit, and I don't ever see that happening here," Thompson, who has a short position on the stock, told the financial news site. "This is one of the worst income statements I've ever seen and between the story and the financials, the financials will win out in this case."

Moody's downgraded Tesla's rating Tuesday and assigned it a negative outlook due to the significant shortfall in the production rate of the Model 3.

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Offline SGOS

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2018, 08:16:28 AM »
I wonder if Tesla tried to do too much too soon with it's driverless car.  It's hard enough building an electric concept car and eventually getting it right.  But everyone is aware of the driverless concept and already forming philosophical opinions about the idea long before they've ever ridden in one or seen one.  This is a big problem for Tesla.  No matter how workable and safe driverless cars will be, they will be scrutinized under a microscope with the media salivating to make it into a controversy.  This fatality was going to happen eventually, and Tesla is already straining under philosophical prejudice against driverless cars.

Although, it sounds like Musk may have problems beyond the driverless issue.  Well of course he does.  He's created a new car that people crave, and mass producing millions of the things is a whole different undertaking than building a one-off in a garage for some billionaire.  But then Honda started out during my teens building nothing but crappy motorcycles, and from that grew to producing superior cars to the American big three until they became just another car today.  But that took 60 years.

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2018, 01:05:35 PM »
Elon Musk is a genius ... like Wile E Coyote.  Don't believe market capitalization numbers anyway, that is just finance BS.  And yes, the media, as a pack of wild dogs, is fine as long as they are going after something R people believe in, but irresponsible if going after something D people believe in, because everything has to be about politics and the 2018 midterms, and how Putin/England/Iran are masterminding every little thing.
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