Author Topic: Tesla now worth more than Ford  (Read 240 times)

Tesla now worth more than Ford
« on: April 04, 2017, 07:55:08 AM »
Tesla stock surged 6% Monday on higher than anticipated sales figures giving the company a market value of about $48 billion. Ford stock dropped about 4% on lower than anticipated sales leaving it with a market value of about $45 billion.

There is no way that Tesla is worth more than Ford. They sold 25,000 cars, generated about $7 billion in gross revenue, and lost nearly a billion last year. They have only had 2 quarters in the history of the company they didn't lose money. By contrast last year Ford sold more than 617,000 cars, had more than $151 billion in revenue, and turned a profit of more than $1.5 billion. What the fuck is wrong with our stock market?
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Online Shiranu

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 08:27:37 AM »
Ford is Shit nowadays, so that doesn't surprise me.
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 11:08:10 AM »




Isn't not terribly surprising that Tesla is doing better than Ford right now.

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 11:11:44 AM »
There is no way that Tesla is worth more than Ford. They sold 25,000 cars, generated about $7 billion in gross revenue, and lost nearly a billion last year. They have only had 2 quarters in the history of the company they didn't lose money. By contrast last year Ford sold more than 617,000 cars, had more than $151 billion in revenue, and turned a profit of more than $1.5 billion. What the fuck is wrong with our stock market?
One word:  investors

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 11:44:17 AM »
Sorry. I left a number off of the Ford sales figure. Ford sold 2,617,000 vehicles last year. Not 617,000.

Ford is Shit nowadays, so that doesn't surprise me.

Certainly explains why Ford's F-150 pickup has been the best selling vehicle in the US for 35 straight years...

Look, I'm not trying to knock Tesla or pump up Ford. I've never owned a Ford. I probably never will, but I won't completely rule out the possibility of owning a Ford truck or an old Mustang one day. By contrast the new Tesla X (if they ever get around to making the damn thing) is definitely worth considering. But Ford's 2016 financial report lists $240 billion in assets and $143 billion in debts. Tesla's lists $8 billion in assets and $4 billion in debts. How the hell is a company that's never turned an annual profit worth more than a profitable company with more than 20 times the annual sales and net assets?
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Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 11:46:42 AM »
One word:  investors

It's not investors. That would be you and me. It's fund managers gambling with our money.
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Online Shiranu

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 12:42:18 PM »
Tesla and electric are the future, Ford isn't. That's not much of a gamble, just common sense when you look at the big picture and the future.

Best selling really doesn't mean much though when your brand image drops because of quality... eventually you can't sell on brand name alone. And iirc correctly the head office is a mess, as well as the traditional American autos just not being able to put out as great of product as foreign competitors. They had a good run, but they are taking a seat behind the Japanese and I don't see that changing any time soon.

And I say that as a Ford owner from generations of Ford only owners. It's not like I have anything against their older products.
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 12:51:43 PM »
It's not investors. That would be you and me. It's fund managers gambling with our money.

And direct government subsidy, same as Amazon (Bezos is nearly the world's richest man), same as MIC ... anyone can be brilliant if they get free taxpayer money.  Tesla has lost money on every unit they produce.  And a private rocket to the moon, will never break even either.  Tax payer subsidized megalomaniacs.  Subsidized MIC is necessary, because no consumer will pay for war voluntarily.  But extending this model to the rest of the economy is lunacy.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 12:52:56 PM »
Tesla and electric are the future, Ford isn't. That's not much of a gamble, just common sense when you look at the big picture and the future.

Best selling really doesn't mean much though when your brand image drops because of quality... eventually you can't sell on brand name alone. And iirc correctly the head office is a mess, as well as the traditional American autos just not being able to put out as great of product as foreign competitors. They had a good run, but they are taking a seat behind the Japanese and I don't see that changing any time soon.

And I say that as a Ford owner from generations of Ford only owners. It's not like I have anything against their older products.

Tesla and electric cars only work, if you have cheap to free electricity, and have it available nearly everywhere.  That isn't likely to happen, without fusion power ... which will come online any day now.  Solar and Wind won't provide the right power at the right places at the right time.
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Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2017, 01:11:51 PM »
Tesla and electric cars only work, if you have cheap to free electricity, and have it available nearly everywhere.
Electric cars already offer significant refueling savings given existing electrical prices (so the cheap/free part is pure bullshit).  And charging stations are already widely available across the country, not to mention residential charging.

Just fyi, given your track record, I'm just going to assume from here on out that you're talking complete nonsense unless you start providing good sources to back up your argument.

Offline Baruch

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2017, 07:26:02 PM »
Electric cars already offer significant refueling savings given existing electrical prices (so the cheap/free part is pure bullshit).  And charging stations are already widely available across the country, not to mention residential charging.

Just fyi, given your track record, I'm just going to assume from here on out that you're talking complete nonsense unless you start providing good sources to back up your argument.

Go into the average gas station here ... and plug in, nut job?  Your economic spreadsheet dynamics ... are just white collar fraud (not you, that crook Elon).  Now there may be, in a large metro near you, some access ... as there is for compressed natural gas powered government vehicles.  Just please, stay in the big city ... your extension cord will be too embarrassing.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 03:07:44 AM »
Tesla stock surged 6% Monday on higher than anticipated sales figures giving the company a market value of about $48 billion. Ford stock dropped about 4% on lower than anticipated sales leaving it with a market value of about $45 billion.

There is no way that Tesla is worth more than Ford. They sold 25,000 cars, generated about $7 billion in gross revenue, and lost nearly a billion last year. They have only had 2 quarters in the history of the company they didn't lose money. By contrast last year Ford sold more than 617,000 cars, had more than $151 billion in revenue, and turned a profit of more than $1.5 billion. What the fuck is wrong with our stock market?

Optimism is the basis of stock trades.  Reality is irrelevant.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 09:38:14 AM »
Optimism is the basis of stock trades.  Reality is irrelevant.

Couple of days ago they passed GM too...
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Offline SGOS

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 10:07:48 AM »
I read a short article yesterday.  If I understand it correctly, which is a big if, this is certainly true on paper that Tesla outvalues GM, but only when looking at how the companies are valued in a limited number of ways.  It seems like a function of what happens with stock trading, which now seems to be what the government bases most of its assessment of the economy, but less with what actually happens in Corporations.  I dunno.  It depends much on how we decide to value certain aspects of the economy.

Re: Tesla now worth more than Ford
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 10:31:45 AM »
I read a short article yesterday.  If I understand it correctly, which is a big if, this is certainly true on paper that Tesla outvalues GM, but only when looking at how the companies are valued in a limited number of ways.  It seems like a function of what happens with stock trading, which now seems to be what the government bases most of its assessment of the economy, but less with what actually happens in Corporations.  I dunno.  It depends much on how we decide to value certain aspects of the economy.

That was the whole point of the OP. At it's current price Tesla's stock is now worth more than either Ford or GM. But if you compare the actual companies there is no comparison. Ford and GM are both profitable companies. Tesla is not. Ford and GM's assets dwarf Tesla's. Actual sales numbers aren't even on the same planet.

People are betting heavily that Tesla's model X is going to be a huge success. Unfortunately the model X doesn't even have to fail for Tesla's stock to tank. Just lower than anticipated sales could do it. If that happens a lot of people including me are going to lose money we can't afford to lose. Many of the people paying these astronomical prices for the stock are the fund managers that control our IRA's and 401K's.
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