Author Topic: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money  (Read 674 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2017, 07:27:28 PM »
For the longest time, I've considered myself an advocate for science and technology.  Scientific advancement gives us the power to do things that were previously impossible - feed the hungry, wipe out diseases, build great machines to ensure a high standard of living, and to perform previously godlike feats with trivial ease.  In short, science is knowledge and knowledge is power.

So it seems like a foregone conclusion that mankind should take to the stars.  Not only for the direct scientific and resourcing benefits, but also because the cooperation necessary for such a feat would inevitably bring participating nations closer together.  Also, on an individual level, a space pioneer slipping the surly bonds of Earth, making camp on Luna or Mars, and seeing that pale blue dot from a fresh perspective...how could that experience possibly be anything but ennobling?  One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

But lately, I've come to realize the naiveté and foolishness of this dream.  Space is vast and empty and dangerous.  Yes, dangerous.  We're risking peoples lives and for what?  To bring back chunks of rock?  That's crazy.

Look, space exploration was fine and dandy when we were up against the Ruskies and we put the stars and stripes on the moon to show them who has the bigger rocket.  That space race is over.  Since then, America has moved on to new threats, like Islamic terrorism, an increasingly formidable China, and a revanchist Russia.  America has moved on from the 1960s, NASA has not.

NASA still plays a vital role in tracking climate change, but let's honest for a second - this isn't some selfless organization intent on making the world a better place, this is a wasteful government bureaucracy trying desperately to justify its billions-per-year budget.  They're just lining their pockets on the taxpayer dime.  NASA isn't truly interested in global warming; it simply realized that wearing green is a convenient way to get government money.

And speaking of money, these billions of dollars could certainly be put to better use.  Instead of building some probe that's just going to drop dead on Mars even if it doesn't crash on the way, we could put it to much more productive endeavors.  As a wise man once said, there's no such thing as a free lunch; expenditures in space exploration necessarily divert money away from education, Social Security, etc.  Do you think it's right to take money away from Meals On Wheels to fulfill some nerds' fantasies?  I don't.

So please, let's all give up this silly dream and refocus our efforts on making this world better.  Space will always be out there.  Let's deal with our problems here, first.

Are you trying to copy me?  Great!  Keep up the good work, and I won't have to post as often ;-))  Love your new avatar too .. but Dory is more cute and absent minded.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 07:30:12 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Sorginak

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017, 07:33:13 PM »
To be honest, I am conflicted when it comes to spending money on space exploration.

Should we instead stop polluting this planet and provide a better future for generations to come or should we search for a new planet upon which to live?

If America wasn't so damn fucking stupid as to make enemies of others around the globe, maybe we wouldn't need to spend all of our money on military defense.  Not that anyone was attacking us when Obama was president.  If anything, Republicans have this narrow minded view of being unnecessarily prepared because of the shit they spew.  Republicans know they deserve a backlash after they state retarded things, and that should be a lesson to them rather than the world.  They need to stop being so goddamn stupid in their views and what they state.

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes it just happens. 
Religion is primitive, inventive nonsense.

Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2017, 07:37:55 PM »
Crime pays.  If you don't like it, stay in your mom's basement.  But this reality is bigger than people, I blame G-d.  Asshole deity.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 10:04:25 AM »
"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."

I get goose bumps every time I hear that.  Is there any doubt that Star Trek is mankind's greatest literary achievement? And the Interplanetary Federation started with something like NASA.

And you want to shut down NASA to save Social Security?  The savings isn't likely to go into Social Security.

Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2017, 10:12:00 AM »
"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."

I get goose bumps every time I hear that.  Is there any doubt that Star Trek is mankind's greatest literary achievement? And the Interplanetary Federation started with something like NASA.

And you want to shut down NASA to save Social Security?  The savings isn't likely to go into Social Security.

No need to shut anything down since 1971.  Just print more dollars, for every government department, and now we can do it digitally!  Let the inflation come my children ... "after me, the deluge" - King Louis XV.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2017, 10:21:06 AM »
No need to shut anything down since 1971.  Just print more dollars, for every government department, and now we can do it digitally!  Let the inflation come my children ... "after me, the deluge" - King Louis XV.
I never have figured out what bit coins are exactly, but it must be something that could apply here.  Personally, I prefer VISA, but if there is another form of fake money, I want in on it.

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2017, 11:03:31 AM »
Happy April Fools Day!   :celebrate: :dance:

Everything I've previously said in this thread was complete bullshit (hence Baruch's glowing review, lol).

Almost all of my arguments were either false dilemmas (funding Social Security VS funding NASA), irrelevant (Christopher Columbus did terrible things as an argument against exploring the Earth), or predicated on horrendously wrong assumptions (NASA employees cynically exploiting climate change for money, space exploration as wasteful, grossly misunderstanding the value of spinoff technologies).

 :signlies:

One tragically common bad argument is that we should fix problems on Earth first before venturing out into space.  On the surface, that sounds reasonable, but when exactly do you guys think all our problems will be solved?  It's never going to happen.  So, by agreeing with that argument, you're effectively agreeing to never explore space.  What else could I get you to give up by forcing you to choose between two things?

Anyone who thought any of these arguments were compelling in any way, you need to seriously re-examine your baloney detection kit.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 02:33:43 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2017, 11:05:33 AM »
Btw, Baruch here's the fish avatar in its entirety:



Poisson d'Avril = April Fools.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 11:46:05 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2017, 12:05:50 PM »


Anyone who thought any of these arguments were compelling in any way, you need to seriously re-examine your baloney detection kit.
I didn't think they were compelling, but I know people who do, they're my (collectively called) cousins. They don't believe we went to the Moon, and NASA's budget is actually spent on whores and nose powder for politicians. You just gave me some practice responding to them.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2017, 12:57:53 PM »
Over the years, I've learned to keep my guard up on April 1st.  My mother would bake string into one of my pancakes, boil a rubber hot dog for lunch.  I think only Christmas was more important to her, and I'm not sure about Christmas.

Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2017, 01:06:41 PM »
I never have figured out what bit coins are exactly, but it must be something that could apply here.  Personally, I prefer VISA, but if there is another form of fake money, I want in on it.

A quick note on Bitcoin and other such systems.  There are two points ...

1. You generate your own money, but not arbitrarily, you have to find a new unique number (in the prescribed series) at bit like finding the next higher prime number.  All the easy ones have already been "mined".  For the early guys (Ponzi) it was easy .. it is much harder now

2. You trade this new money ... it has a block chain.  That way you can't cheat ... there is a public record of each trade (as there is of each bitcoin) ... you can't deny that you traded a bitcoin (for whatever you traded it for) ... but not a record of what you spent it on.  The bitcoin is completely traceable back to the original mine it was algorithmically dug out of.

3. Governments have no toleration for money that is generated outside of their Treasury.  This is a primary control mechanism (that and real estate).  And they figure that only legitimate banks can do money laundering (and the CIA of course) ... independent money laundering is very no-no.  Just like force is a monopoly of the State, that doesn't tolerate Tony Soprano when he does it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 01:10:07 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2017, 01:07:39 PM »
Happy April Fools Day!   :celebrate: :dance:

Everything I've previously said in this thread was complete bullshit (hence Baruch's glowing review, lol).

Almost all of my arguments were either false dilemmas (funding Social Security VS funding NASA), irrelevant (Christopher Columbus did terrible things as an argument against exploring the Earth), or predicated on horrendously wrong assumptions (NASA employees cynically exploiting climate change for money, space exploration as wasteful, grossly misunderstanding the value of spinoff technologies).

 :signlies:

One tragically common bad argument is that we should fix problems on Earth first before venturing out into space.  On the surface, that sounds reasonable, but when exactly do you guys think all our problems will be solved?  It's never going to happen.  So, by agreeing with that argument, you're effectively agreeing to never explore space.  What else could I get you to give up by forcing choose between two things?

Anyone who thought any of these arguments were compelling in any way, you need to seriously re-examine your baloney detection kit.

Every day is April Fools, sheeple!
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2017, 01:08:40 PM »
Btw, Baruch here's the fish avatar in its entirety:

(Image removed from quote.)

Poisson d'Avril = April Fools.

Excellent, I heard of that custom when I was studying French.  They even attach paper fish to other people when their backs are turned.  Is that why the Germans hate them?
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 03:15:46 AM »
For the longest time, I've considered myself an advocate for science and technology.  Scientific advancement gives us the power to do things that were previously impossible - feed the hungry, wipe out diseases, build great machines to ensure a high standard of living, and to perform previously godlike feats with trivial ease.  In short, science is knowledge and knowledge is power.

So it seems like a foregone conclusion that mankind should take to the stars.  Not only for the direct scientific and resourcing benefits, but also because the cooperation necessary for such a feat would inevitably bring participating nations closer together.  Also, on an individual level, a space pioneer slipping the surly bonds of Earth, making camp on Luna or Mars, and seeing that pale blue dot from a fresh perspective...how could that experience possibly be anything but ennobling?  One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

But lately, I've come to realize the naiveté and foolishness of this dream.  Space is vast and empty and dangerous.  Yes, dangerous.  We're risking peoples lives and for what?  To bring back chunks of rock?  That's crazy.

Look, space exploration was fine and dandy when we were up against the Ruskies and we put the stars and stripes on the moon to show them who has the bigger rocket.  That space race is over.  Since then, America has moved on to new threats, like Islamic terrorism, an increasingly formidable China, and a revanchist Russia.  America has moved on from the 1960s, NASA has not.

NASA still plays a vital role in tracking climate change, but let's honest for a second - this isn't some selfless organization intent on making the world a better place, this is a wasteful government bureaucracy trying desperately to justify its billions-per-year budget.  They're just lining their pockets on the taxpayer dime.  NASA isn't truly interested in global warming; it simply realized that wearing green is a convenient way to get government money.

And speaking of money, these billions of dollars could certainly be put to better use.  Instead of building some probe that's just going to drop dead on Mars even if it doesn't crash on the way, we could put it to much more productive endeavors.  As a wise man once said, there's no such thing as a free lunch; expenditures in space exploration necessarily divert money away from education, Social Security, etc.  Do you think it's right to take money away from Meals On Wheels to fulfill some nerds' fantasies?  I don't.

So please, let's all give up this silly dream and refocus our efforts on making this world better.  Space will always be out there.  Let's deal with our problems here, first.

Scientific American suggests that cosmic rays prevent human space travel in the immediate future due to brain damage.  So maybe we better spend a few decades solving our problems here first while they solve that problem anyway.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Why space exploration is a pointless waste of money
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2017, 07:00:18 AM »
SA isn't a peer reviewed journal, of course. But, just for fun, did they say how much more exposure we'd get in space than on Earth?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers