Solomon Zorn Vs. God

[Mike Cl]

Religion is a wide and huge entity with many universes.

And every single religious universe is based upon belief and not empirical data.  That my friend, is called wishful thinking.

Personally I don't 'believe' in anything.  However, I do know the universe I live in is real and that understanding is backed by data and evidence, not wishful thinking.  The downside to that is that I don't know everything--very little actually, but what I do know is fact based--not wishful thinking. 

[Baruch]

Even if God does exist, at the very least he's irrelevant, since he doesn't do anything. He doesn't answer prayer, he doesn't punish the evildoers, he doesn't reward the faithful. He isn't making the world a better place for us to live. He does nothing at all, and can therefore be discounted.

Is that you, Epicurus?  Or perhaps Lucretius?  Marcus Tullio Cicero says y'all are full of it, and not polenta either!

[Baruch]

And every single religious universe is based upon belief and not empirical data.  That my friend, is called wishful thinking.

Personally I don't 'believe' in anything.  However, I do know the universe I live in is real and that understanding is backed by data and evidence, not wishful thinking.  The downside to that is that I don't know everything--very little actually, but what I do know is fact based--not wishful thinking.

Materialist data.  Empirical data is bigger than just physics.

[Mousetrap]

Even if God does exist, at the very least he's irrelevant, since he doesn't do anything. He doesn't answer prayer, he doesn't punish the evildoers, he doesn't reward the faithful. He isn't making the world a better place for us to live. He does nothing at all, and can therefore be discounted.

OK, so this is the God you will worship?
I think you are confusing God with Batman.
Batman fights evil, makes Gotham city a better place to live in, rewards Arthur and Robin, and when the light shines in the night sky, he answers the citizens' prayers.
OK.
Your god sounds a lot like an action figure that should serve you.
Perhaps you got the rolls confused too.

[Baruch]

OK, so this is the God you will worship?
I think you are confusing God with Batman.
Batman fights evil, makes Gotham city a better place to live in, rewards Arthur and Robin, and when the light shines in the night sky, he answers the citizens' prayers.
OK.
Your god sounds a lot like an action figure that should serve you.
Perhaps you got the rolls confused too.

Typical moderns raised on alien guys in spandex and giant robots ... are like that ;-)

[SGOS]

You said this...

I think you are confusing God with Batman.
Batman fights evil, makes Gotham city a better place to live in, rewards Arthur and Robin, and when the light shines in the night sky, he answers the citizens' prayers.
OK.
Your god sounds a lot like an action figure that should serve you.

...in response to this:

Even if God does exist, at the very least he's irrelevant, since he doesn't do anything. He doesn't answer prayer, he doesn't punish the evildoers, he doesn't reward the faithful. He isn't making the world a better place for us to live. He does nothing at all, and can therefore be discounted.

These are examples of God/human interaction that are claimed by the righteous.  Unbeliever did not make these up to be used as straw men.  His point was that God doesn't do anything, least of all the things claimed by the God fans.  What you should take away from this is that a god who doesn't do what he is reported to do has an uncanny resemblance to a god that doesn't exist.  While this is not proof, it goes into the column for evidence of absence.

[Baruch]

True, but not the way you think.  Creator as potentiality, and creation as actuality.  Potentiality is very passive by definition.  This is a flip-side definition, because usually, as Aristotelians, the creator is active and the matter acted on is passive.  The actual Biblical view is that G-d is Fate aka the past, not the future.  The past can't be changed, as fate can't be changed.  But you have to look back, not forward.  Looking forward we have free will, but looking backward it is a done deal.  That analogy comes about because of the "timeless/eternal" aspect.  In a sense, the past is timeless.  It is the present where time is active.  The future of course is always speculative.

[Mousetrap]

Baruch the scribe of Jeremiah,
Where is Gan Eden?
Shalom

[Baruch]

Baruch the scribe of Jeremiah,
Where is Gan Eden?
Shalom

Wherever a Jew is (aka someone in relation to G-d) ... there is Gan Eden (garden of Eden).  Only I usually wear more than a fig leaf, except when I am in the shower.  So why are you chatting up all these serpents (aka dragons, not snakes).  Looking for buried gold, or a maiden in need of rescue?

"Where your heart is, there is your treasure also"

[Hydra009]

Batman fights evil, makes Gotham city a better place to live in, rewards Arthur and Robin, and when the light shines in the night sky, he answers the citizens' prayers.

That actually sounds way better than the petty, vengeful, and schizophrenic overlord you believe in.  Is there a way to trade up?

[Unbeliever]

The God of the Bible, even if it did exist, is certainly not worthy of either praise or worship:

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I'm really glad the thing doesn't exist, or we'd have to kill it.

[Baruch]

The God of the Bible, even if it did exist, is certainly not worthy of either praise or worship:

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I'm really glad the thing doesn't exist, or we'd have to kill it.

That is exactly the point for Greatest I Am.  So reject the Greek philosophy god also ... you Platonist ;-)

[Blackleaf]

I woke yesterday and had the urge to seek a forum where atheists are calling upon God.
I searched on Google and this forum popped up.
I registered last night and this morning received confirmation that I can attend here.
something said I should look at the debates.
I found this one where an atheist decided to debate God.
I see he was waiting for a while, but why was I sent here?
Anyhow, I perceive God sent me here to speak to you.
What do you want?

Somehow it seems disrespectful to dig up a dead man's thread and start debating in it. Granted, you couldn't have known when you got here, but you have been informed so...

[Mousetrap]

Somehow it seems disrespectful to dig up a dead man's thread and start debating in it. Granted, you couldn't have known when you got here, but you have been informed so...

I actually realize that he was granted his wish.
He is debating with God personally.

[Mr.Obvious]

I actually realize that he was granted his wish.
He is debating with God personally.

Strike one.