Author Topic: Solomon Zorn Vs. God  (Read 3219 times)

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2018, 07:31:49 AM »
Naa, I made a joke.
The translation is that you speak Afrikaans almost like me but with an accent of someone smoking (rook) hashish (dagga =south african name for hashish )
We here like to joke about the dutch speaking the way they do, and having smoke shops selling hash.

From my side, I am an investigator of all philosophies, including theoretical sciences.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2018, 07:35:28 AM »
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U praat byna net soos ek!
Weet jy dat jy eintlik Afrikaans praat, maar met 'n aksent van iemand wat dagga rook?
I am only on this forum to investigate Atheism, to understand why Atheists claim that they have evidence that there can not be a divine creator.
To me, this will be the last knowledge to obtain in my study of religions.

Enjoy your day pal.

I am a token theist here ;-)  Would be happy to discuss the many pros and cons of human idealism (which is where human thought comes from ... ideas you know).  People here range from 20s to 70s mostly.  My favorite online pastor right now is a Dutch Reformed Church guy in Sacramento California.  Though not because he is Christian ... I am Jewish myself.  And most Jewish people are atheist, though I am not.

There are people here who were never religious, and some who are ex-religious.  And me ... a heretic.  It is good of you to explore the possibilities.

Actual debates here, or anywhere, run aground on the shoals of semantics.  We don't agree on the definitions of words, and that is even when we share the same language or general culture.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2018, 07:38:19 AM »
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Obviously I was not sent to talk to Sol.
 :headscratch:

Sol was an older fellow, in poor health, who had an artistic temperament (poetry and music).  There are several artistic types here.  A few science geeks as well.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2018, 07:46:39 AM »
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I am only on this forum to investigate Atheism, to understand why Atheists claim that they have evidence that there can not be a divine creator.
To me, this will be the last knowledge to obtain in my study of religions.
You are seeking understanding of what is an exception to a rule.  Some atheists claim to have evidence that there cannot be a divine creator.  But most atheists would disagree with them.  Such evidence is more in the category of opinion.  It's no more valid than the opinion that there is a divine creator.  But a few atheists will not like my opinion, if that makes you happy.

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2018, 09:27:46 AM »
I will offer this.  I see the total lack of any evidence at all is proof that there is no god.  God is totally man-made; god did not make mankind, man created god out of whole cloth.  I will say the same about Jesus.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2018, 10:28:48 AM »
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I will offer this.  I see the total lack of any evidence at all is proof that there is no god.  God is totally man-made; god did not make mankind, man created god out of whole cloth.  I will say the same about Jesus.

Unfortunately that is reverse abduction, not reverse deduction.

If A then B ... no B then no A is correct (Modus Tollens).

What is correct is If only-A then B ... no B then no A is what you mean.  There can be If C then B ... no B ... then maybe C or A depending.

You are correct that religion is man-made, so is scripture etc ... so is science and math.  There is no science or math without humans (or other sentients).  Plato would disagree .. you agree with Plato, then you are not a scientist, you are a particular kind of philosopher.  Your arguments against the Bible, which are justified, are the same arguments Plato made against Homer's writings.  Plato invented the university system BTW ... and we see that still in our colleges ... disturbed young people who are a threat to society ... exactly why the Athenians executed Socrates, and largely rejected Plato.
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Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2018, 10:40:13 AM »
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I will offer this.  I see the total lack of any evidence at all is proof that there is no god.  God is totally man-made; god did not make mankind, man created god out of whole cloth.  I will say the same about Jesus.
My problem with this logic is that man only discovered say...infrared and ultra violet light less than a 100 years ago.
The philosophical question would be, did Ultraviolet and infra red light exist before it was discovered?
to say there is lack of evidence to claim that there is no Creator, is no scientific deduction as proven by Baruch, the scribe.
Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2018, 10:48:28 AM »
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My problem with this logic is that man only discovered say...infrared and ultra violet light less than a 100 years ago.
The philosophical question would be, did Ultraviolet and infra red light exist before it was discovered?
to say there is lack of evidence to claim that there is no Creator, is no scientific deduction as proven by Baruch, the scribe.

Unfortunately, actual logic is real hard.  And is as only good as your BS axioms.  It works real well for plane geometry however.  This is why something really complicated, like theology or philosophy never can agree on anything.

To clarify for others ... if there are more than one cause for B ... then the lack of B isn't disproof of any particular cause, particularly if the lack of B is circumstantial not universal.  If not-B is universal, then all the causes of B are false, not just one.  Yes, it is that complicated.

My experience is that ... B.  His experience is that ... not B.  What is the justification for our variance?  Well, we don't agree on what B is, both semantically and factually.  My view of B is variant from other theologies, so I don't even agree with people who would be superficially close to my view.  This doesn't invalidate the existential experience of any human being however.  That gets us to absolutist objectivism ... which would deny all subjectivism.  What is ironic about most atheists is that they unconsciously and irrationally mix both objective and subjective POV ... which is inevitable for any human being, because we swim in both oceans.
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Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2018, 10:56:15 AM »
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I woke yesterday and had the urge to seek a forum where atheists are calling upon God.
I searched on Google and this forum popped up.
I registered last night and this morning received confirmation that I can attend here.
something said I should look at the debates.
I found this one where an atheist decided to debate God.
I see he was waiting for a while, but why was I sent here?
Anyhow, I perceive God sent me here to speak to you.
What do you want?
You realize you're speaking to a dead man, right? Solomon Zorn died about a year ago.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2018, 11:02:43 AM »
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You realize you're speaking to a dead man, right? Solomon Zorn died about a year ago.

He did not, but he was elliptically informed of this earlier in this thread.  In my POV, Solomon Zorn is still with us, but y'all can disbelieve that if y'all want to ;-)
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Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2018, 12:59:52 PM »
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My problem with this logic is that man only discovered say...infrared and ultra violet light less than a 100 years ago.
The philosophical question would be, did Ultraviolet and infra red light exist before it was discovered?
to say there is lack of evidence to claim that there is no Creator, is no scientific deduction as proven by Baruch, the scribe.
Because humans have not discovered all there is to discover proves god?????  Or even indicates god???? And before flight; 'if god wanted man to fly, He would have given him wings.' --before anything was discovered it was claimed man should not do that because god had not allowed man to do that.  That has been proven wrong each and every time; sort of like the end of the world predictions--proven wrong every time. 

Mousetrap, I don't believe in anything.  I don't 'believe' the sun will come up tomorrow.  I think it will, for it has done so for millions of years and will do so for millions after.  Belief has nothing to do with it.  Plus, it does not 'rise' anyway, since it is only an illusion caused by the rotation of the earth relative to the sun.  Yet religion is still mired in the times when god allowed the sun to rise.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2018, 10:27:15 AM »
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Yet religion is still mired in the times when god allowed the sun to rise.
Religion is a wide and huge entity with many universes.
One such a galaxy is called, the religion of not believing in anything.

Evolution, the religion whereby one believes your children more human, and your parents more ape, than you!

The Human Mind, if it has nothing to do with Evolution...What an incredible entity...
If it does, what a waste!

Atheism, what a wonderful religion, where one believe to believe is erroneous.

Offline Baruch

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2018, 11:27:03 AM »
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Religion is a wide and huge entity with many universes.
One such a galaxy is called, the religion of not believing in anything.

More like a philosophy ... but when science is called "knowledge" then everything is science.
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Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2018, 12:41:39 PM »
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Religion is a wide and huge entity with many universes.
One such a galaxy is called, the religion of not believing in anything.
You're mixing your levels, bro. Galaxy ≠ universe.

Anyway, the religion of not believing in anything is, I assure you, completely barren. I believe in some things. I just don't believe in your god.
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Re: Solomon Zorn Vs. God
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2018, 01:20:20 PM »
Even if God does exist, at the very least he's irrelevant, since he doesn't do anything. He doesn't answer prayer, he doesn't punish the evildoers, he doesn't reward the faithful. He isn't making the world a better place for us to live. He does nothing at all, and can therefore be discounted.
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“Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”
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