Author Topic: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science  (Read 601 times)

Offline Mermaid

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2017, 07:22:38 PM »
I attended a scientific meeting this summer in which the plenary session was about climate change as it relates to parasites. This is a meeting of the minds, and I was very alarmed to observe the smug, supercilious rejection of the very principles being discussed, the ACTUAL DATA. By ACTUAL SCIENTISTS. I don't know what the consensus was, but I did hear a few people talking over beer. It made my blood run cold.

I think this was the turning point for me. I am basically dead inside. There's nothing left of me at all. I have quit the shock and disbelief and am in thorough, complete denial.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2017, 04:59:29 AM »
The best thing that could happen for science is the reestablishment of the Office of Technology Assessment.  Originally created to advise Congress of science matters, it was defunded by the Republican Congress as being too awkward for the descientification of their goals.

An excellent suggestion.  Can anything survive partisan politics?
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2017, 05:01:46 AM »
I attended a scientific meeting this summer in which the plenary session was about climate change as it relates to parasites. This is a meeting of the minds, and I was very alarmed to observe the smug, supercilious rejection of the very principles being discussed, the ACTUAL DATA. By ACTUAL SCIENTISTS. I don't know what the consensus was, but I did hear a few people talking over beer. It made my blood run cold.

I think this was the turning point for me. I am basically dead inside. There's nothing left of me at all. I have quit the shock and disbelief and am in thorough, complete denial.

So do you suspect interference by funding agencies (usually government related)?  Or are they just dragging their heels to avoid jumping to a conclusion you already endorse?
שלום

Offline Mermaid

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2017, 06:45:26 PM »
So do you suspect interference by funding agencies (usually government related)?  Or are they just dragging their heels to avoid jumping to a conclusion you already endorse?
Neither. It's just that people are rationalizing things differently.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2017, 06:50:59 PM »
Neither. It's just that people are rationalizing things differently.

When can people stop rationalizing - BS ... and do actual thinking?
שלום

Offline Mermaid

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 07:02:30 PM »
Good question. It would be nice if actual scientists would do it.
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2017, 10:53:34 PM »
Good question. It would be nice if actual scientists would do it.

Are they simply being driven by the irrationality of their funding sources?  Like church sponsored research into Noah's ark?
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Online Cavebear

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 01:10:43 AM »
Are they simply being driven by the irrationality of their funding sources?  Like church sponsored research into Noah's ark?

Investigations into finding Noah's ark are not real.  Investigations into neutrinos is.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2017, 07:19:59 AM »
Investigations into finding Noah's ark are not real.  Investigations into neutrinos is.

Mermaid is laconic.  I frequently misunderstand her as a result.  In this case she says a bit more, but not enough to name names (who is selling cold fusion?).
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2017, 07:23:14 AM »
Mermaid is laconic.  I frequently misunderstand her as a result.  In this case she says a bit more, but not enough to name names (who is selling cold fusion?).

Mermaid is even less specific than you are and that is going some.

Cold fusion is an old joke by now.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2017, 07:40:22 AM »
Mermaid is even less specific than you are and that is going some.

Cold fusion is an old joke by now.

Hot fusion is ... still hot!
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Online Cavebear

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 09:51:12 AM »
Hot fusion is ... still hot!

Define how it can work...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 07:19:41 PM »
Define how it can work...

Take a ball of mostly hydrogen, a really big big ball, and compress it with gravitational attraction ... when the hydrogen (etc) nuclei have no place to go (path distance between collisions) they start fusing statistically, generating a lot of heat.  The heat from the compression initially, and from the fusing eventually, increases the rate of burn, because more and more nuclei are on the tail end of the gaussian energy spectrum, where fusing is more likely to occur.  Of course, with cooler gas, but thanks to "tunneling" it is possible at a low rate, to fuse even with less than the classical energy required.  Since there is such a vast number of atoms involved, even a little cool burning is enough to get things cooking.  Once it starts predominantly cooking, it burns until it runs out of fuel.
שלום

Online Cavebear

Re: The Chilling Effect of the Politicization of Science
« Reply #28 on: Today at 05:54:42 AM »
Take a ball of mostly hydrogen, a really big big ball, and compress it with gravitational attraction ... when the hydrogen (etc) nuclei have no place to go (path distance between collisions) they start fusing statistically, generating a lot of heat.  The heat from the compression initially, and from the fusing eventually, increases the rate of burn, because more and more nuclei are on the tail end of the gaussian energy spectrum, where fusing is more likely to occur.  Of course, with cooler gas, but thanks to "tunneling" it is possible at a low rate, to fuse even with less than the classical energy required.  Since there is such a vast number of atoms involved, even a little cool burning is enough to get things cooking.  Once it starts predominantly cooking, it burns until it runs out of fuel.

Man I fell into THAT one, LOL!  Yes, I know how fusion works.    But out of curiosity, and WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP, do you know WHY fusion produces heat?  And why it stops?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950