Author Topic: Afterlife  (Read 10166 times)

Offline Colanth

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2013, 04:19:16 PM »
Quote from: "impulse"
If it's not anything like that, please tell me where you learned this, or how you came to such a conclusion that there should be such a thing as a "default position" that isn't "[blank]."
The fact that not accepting an assertion IS "[blank]".  But, as you said, I'm no longer willing to provide answers on a silver platter to those unwilling to apply at least a little thought to the matter.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Offline stromboli

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2013, 09:45:56 PM »
Everyone here acknowledges the unknown. We acknowledge it as "unknown". The point is you can postulate anything you want and it still comes back unknown. Riverworld is just as possible as heaven.
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Offline Aupmanyav

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2013, 05:10:45 AM »
Quote from: "impulse"
As a reminder, my advocacy is for "I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO US AFTER WE DIE" and no matter where I go, it gets treated as UNREASONABLE. IT KIND OF PISSES ME OFF.
Capital letters are bad enough, no need to make them bold. It should not piss you. It is actually unreasonable to accept existence of 'soul'; and about the body, we all know it very well.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Offline Plu

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2013, 05:26:32 AM »
Quote
As a reminder, my advocacy is for "I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO US AFTER WE DIE"

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. As long as you don't try to fill the unknown with answers, it's a good position.

(Of course there is always the problem of relevance which factors in decisions you make regarding the topic. That's the main problem with "I do not know" when it comes to things that still factor into your life, such as the topic of dying... you still need to hold a position on the topic that you use to color your decisions, even if you realise that it's only held out of neccesity. Otherwise you would not be able to reach any decisions.)
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deanasinfiniti

  • Guest
Re: Afterlife
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2013, 08:23:22 AM »
There are people who have clinically died and were resuscitated. So we have testimony's of what happens when we die, It's unfortunate that people have encountered, church going people who have judged them or looked down on them, the truth is none of us are perfect, not even Christians. I urge you investigate on your own there are many testimonials, and draw your own conclusions. Here are a couple links.
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Offline Plu

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2013, 08:49:19 AM »
We actually have a pretty good understanding of what happens when your brain is deprived of oxygen, which account for the whole "tunnel of light" thing. And we know that people who feel they were "floating above themselves" weren't actually do so, because it has been tested by painting symbols in places where the person could not see them, but anyone "floating above themselves" definately would, and nobody was ever able to tell anyone what the symbols were.

Instead of listening to the ramblings of people whose brains were shutting down, you'd do better to check out the actual science behind what happens when your brain is shutting itself down.
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Re: Afterlife
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2013, 11:49:28 AM »
I really dislike that some people act  like I am wrong to worry about death, and worry about life will go on without me.  I can't even say that I believe an atheist would not think/worry about it.  Regardless, I appreciate every single day.  I truly do.  And I call my mom every day, and all but kiss this wonderful earth each and every day in appreciation for being able to enjoy it.  I hope with everything that I will be able to bear children for my husband.  Part of me thinks that once/if I have them, then I will be able to handle the reality of being gone easier.  Knowing that my DNA will still exist. I don't think I will ever be able to go a day without thinking about this one life, and hoping that while I am hear that most or all of my dreams come true. And I hope I can hold on to good health. I have been blessed and I hope the same for all people.
If you don't chew big red then FUCK YOU!

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2013, 08:52:12 PM »
Part of the clinical definition of death is "irreversibility"- that is, the person cannot be resuscitated. Therefore, anyone who claims to have been clinically dead is either lying or misinformed.

There is such a thing as brain death, which means no or very little brain activity. This is measured via EEG or a reflex test, and is equivalent to a deep coma. Occasionally, people recover from this state, but those people were never really dead in the first place.

Similarly, people can recover from a lack of a pulse. Sometimes the time between flatlining and resuscitation can be as long as several hours if the body is immersed in frigid water. Again, those people were never dead by the clinical definition. It takes more than an absence of pulse or brain activity to be considered "dead".

TL;DR if someone is "clinically dead", then by definition you can start measuring for a coffin, 'cause there ain't nobody home.
My goals: Love, tolerate, and understand.

Offline Colanth

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2013, 10:41:14 PM »
Quote from: "Graceless"
Similarly, people can recover from a lack of a pulse. Sometimes the time between flatlining and resuscitation can be as long as several hours if the body is immersed in frigid water. Again, those people were never dead by the clinical definition. It takes more than an absence of pulse or brain activity to be considered "dead".
AFAIK, Grace, the definition of death is still cessation of cerebral activity.  (Which doesn't happen during NDE.)  And people who have had flat EEGs have been resuscitated after short periods.  (And have never reported religious experiences.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »
Oops. I was taught differently during my training as an EMT, but after reading more thoroughly it seems to be more complicated.

Legal death occurs either when a clinically dead person is deemed impossible to resuscitate, or when a brain-dead person is deemed to have no chance of returning to consciousness. Of course, this determination is somewhat subjective, depends on the laws of the region, and is occasionally wrong.

Brain death is defined as the absence of meaningful activity on an EEG (minimal activity may be present, and usually means that only the brain stem is functioning). However, many jurisdictions do not actually require an EEG to determine brain death; a reflex test is considered to be sufficient.

Clinical death is comparatively straightforward: it refers to the cessation of both breathing and heartbeat.

People do sometimes report NDEs after being recovering from apparent brain death. Whether these people are being truthful is another matter.  

So I guess I learned something new today!   :wink:
My goals: Love, tolerate, and understand.

Offline Colanth

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2013, 02:48:04 AM »
Quote from: "Graceless"
People do sometimes report NDEs after being recovering from apparent brain death. Whether these people are being truthful is another matter.  
They are - they THINK they experience what they report.  But we know what causes NDEs, and it's NOT seeing heaven.  (An NDE is no more objectively real than a dream - because that's exactly what it is.)  People raised as other-than-Christian-theists (in a religion that has an afterlife) report seeing THEIR religion's version of the afterlife.  People raised with no afterlife belief don't usually have visions of an afterlife.

So we're still back to the same confirmation bias type of thing.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2013, 11:11:52 AM »
That's what I was referring to. People see what they want to see; even more so when not firing on all cylinders.
My goals: Love, tolerate, and understand.

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2013, 03:35:14 PM »
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"
I may be the only person here who wants reincarnation.  Sorry, but I just do.  That's something I want to be real - no matter how unproven it is. Why? Cause I'm not done yet.  Too much to do and too much to see.  This surely cannot be all there is.
And not due to some supernatural sky daddy - no - just us returning again and again until we are ultimate, wonderful human beings and the world is a better place millions of years from now.

yeah........... it's a dream.

As for facing death - I have several times.  And I thought the same thing I've typed right here in this thread.
I have a similar hope. I have some weird beliefs though: I believe that "I" will exist as long as someone calls himself "me". I hope that there might even be a heaven-like dream in the womb that transfers us from one life to the next. But I am convinced that there is no unearthly "afterlife". If I am wrong about what happens then no harm done in hoping for it. I still live my life like it's the only one.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

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Offline Aupmanyav

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2013, 09:05:26 AM »
Quote from: "fingerscrossed2013"
I hope with everything that I will be able to bear children for my husband.  Part of me thinks that once/if I have them, then I will be able to handle the reality of being gone easier.  Knowing that my DNA will still exist.
Perfect anti-dote for death. In the lines of a Hindi song:

"Tujhe suraj kahu ya chanda, tujhe dip kahu ya tara
Meraa nam karega roshan, jag me meraa raj dulara
Mere bad bhee is duniya mein, zinda meraa nam rahega
Jo bhee tujhko dekhega, tujhe meraa lal kahega
Tere rup me mil jayega, mujhko jivan do bara"


(Should I call you sun or moon, or a lamp or a star
You will make my name shine, my dear, in the world
Even after me in the world, my name would exist
Whoever will see you, will call you my son
In your form I will get, a new life again)

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login - Third and last stanza.

With age and children, you would loose the fright of death.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Re: Afterlife
« Reply #89 on: September 18, 2013, 09:26:02 AM »
Quote from: "impulse"
If the question was tinged with a feeling of inevitability of oblivion, you would be getting ahead of yourself by being so convinced.

What's the alternative?
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

 

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