Author Topic: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum  (Read 487 times)

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« on: March 19, 2017, 03:47:29 PM »

This is kinda huge news causing ripples across all of Europe, but at least here in America I have heard zero about it. If Turkey wasn't a country I was interested about, I would have no clue (same with Korea's recent impeachment of their president and potential shift to a more left-wing government). I guess we really are shifting to a more isolationist mindset again...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-politics-constitution-idUSKBN15507Q?il=0


Quote
The Turkish parliament has backed a plan to strengthen the powers of the presidency, paving the way for a referendum on the issue in spring which, if passed, could allow President Tayyip Erdogan to stay in office until 2029.


Erdogan says the reform will provide stability in the European Union candidate country at a time of turmoil and prevent a return to the fragile coalitions of the past. His opponents fear it will herald increasingly authoritarian rule.


The constitutional reform bill was approved overnight with 339 votes in the 550-member assembly, parliament said on its official Twitter account on Saturday. The legislation needed at least 330 deputies to support it in order to go to a public vote.


...


The reform would enable the president to issue decrees, declare emergency rule, appoint ministers and top state officials and dissolve parliament - powers that the two main opposition parties say strip away balances to Erdogan's power.


Erdogan assumed the presidency, a largely ceremonial position, in 2014 after over a decade as prime minister with the ruling AK Party, which he co-founded. Since then, pushing his powers to the limit, he has continued to dominate politics by dint of his personal popularity.With the reforms, the president will be allowed to retain ties to a political party, potentially allowing Erdogan to resume his leadership of the AK Party, in a move that opposition parties say will abolish any chance of impartiality. The plans envisage presidential and general elections to be held together in 2019 with a president eligible to serve a maximum two five-year terms.
...
Critics accuse Erdogan of increasing authoritarianism with the arrests and dismissal of tens of thousands of judges, police, military officers, journalists and academics since a failed military coup in July.
Erdogan and the government say the extent of the crackdown is justified by the nature of the threat to the state from July 15, when rogue soldiers commandeered tanks and fighter jets in a violent bid to seize power.

Erdogan on Saturday also revived the question of reintroducing the death penalty, which some of his supporters had called for in the wake of July's coup attempt.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/14/erdogan-turkey-referendum-diplomatic-row
Quote
It is a mark of Turkey’s abandonment of its once pre-eminent diplomatic priority – membership of the European Union – that Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has been so ready to wade into a vitriolic diplomatic row with Europe.
The Turkish president has sparked fury from Angela Merkel and Mark Rutte, two of the EU’s most liberal leaders, with his evocation of nazism and Islamophobia. For good measure he has also reminded Turks of the Dutch role in the Srebrenica massacre.
he external damage may be long-term, but Erdoğan seems to be willing to shrug it off. His priorities right now are entirely domestic and short-term.
Involved in a self-imposed battle for political survival, Erdoğan has staked all on winning a referendum set for 16 April in which he seeks to transform Turkey from a parliamentary system to an executive presidency. A yes vote would give him autocratic powers that were only this week condemned as excessive by a Council of Europe inquiry.
In such circumstances it might be expected that Erdoğan’s path to an imperial presidency would hardly be burdensome. But polls reveal that is not the case.
Though fluctuating, they have broadly shown that Turkish voters are divided, with about 40% in favour of the changes, 40% against and the remaining 20% undecided. Defeat would be unthinkable – a humiliation for a man who feels he has never been adequately thanked by Europe for all Turkey’s efforts in giving safe harbour to millions of Syrian refugees.
...
Turkey sees the ban on its politicians holding rallies – something that started in Germany at a local level, but was supported by Austria, and then the Netherlands – as a sign that Islamophobes have won the argument in Europe.
Yet as soon as the first German ban was imposed, the AKP immediately took the denunciatory rhetoric and threat of reprisals to the most emotive level. It portrayed Turkey and the yes campaign as the victims of a conspiracy. Justice minister Bekir Bozdağ railed against the Germans’ “past illness” in the same breath as condemning a supposedly “fascist practice”. Turkey’s EU minister, Ömer Çelik, accused the Austrians of “using the language of European racists”.
And, by the weekend, amid his dramatic row with the Dutch, Erdoğan himself had reached his peak: “I thought nazism was over,” he thundered, “but I was wrong. In fact, nazism is alive in the west.”
Needless to say, it was not aimed at European officials in Brussels, Berlin or the Hague – but at the Turkish diaspora and domestic audience. The Turkish press accused the Dutch police of behaving like thugs. Geert Wilders, the far-right Freedom party leader in full campaign mode ahead of Wednesday’s Dutch elections, seized the moment, claiming that dual Dutch-Turkish citizens “don’t belong here”. Populists in Europe started feeding off the Turkish rhetoric, and vice-versa.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... bigotry, like everything else, has consequences. The xenophobic rhetoric of buffoons is now being used to create actual problems, and I will wager my left testicle not a one of them will take responsibility for it. It's the same shit all over the place; "All men are sexists!", "All SJW hate white people!", "All cops hate blacks!", etc. etc. ... this rhetoric is doing fuck all, but it's all you see. And then lo' and behold, when people are deemed to be irredeemable and abhorrent... they give up trying to have a productive dialog and tell you right back to go fuck yourself. Who would have thought that would happen? 
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 07:48:30 PM »
I don't think your bourgeois concerns matter much in Turkey.  "I guess we really are shifting to a more isolationist mindset again..." ... what do you mean "we" ... the US?  The MIC won, Trump or Hillary, it is war with Russia, China etc.  Not very isolationist at all.  Not UN supporting either ... hegemonist warmongering.  It is clear that Erdogan wants to be the Saddam of Turkey.
שלום

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 11:36:41 PM »
Quote
The reform would enable the president to issue decrees, declare emergency rule, appoint ministers and top state officials and dissolve parliament - powers that the two main opposition parties say strip away balances to Erdogan's power.
Quote
"My people will give the final decision... I believe this referendum period will conclude with the will of our people," Erdogan said at an opening ceremony in Istanbul.


"We stand on the threshold of a new beginning. In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you, will last for ten thousand years." [the Senators cheer]
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 11:39:48 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline pr126

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 11:56:38 PM »

« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 02:48:08 AM by pr126 »
It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Offline pr126

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 11:58:39 AM »
What’s Erdogan Doing?

Quote
Those fiercely chauvinistic Turks are what he is after. Their votes can give him an electoral victory. In a ballot that goes either way, 7% means a lot. According to what I have read, that 7% of foreign Turkish voters would give him the presidency he craves for. Those people are Turks. They feel they are Turks. They don’t feel any relation whatsoever with the country they happen to live in. Be it Germany, Holland, Belgium or wherever. Not just the first generation migrants, but many more the generations born later. People who were actually born and raised in Germany or Holland.

Government control from Turkey, and make no mistake, Morocco as well, is enormous. It’s probably a toss-up, with the winner being Turkey. All Turkish mosques have imams employed as civil servants working for and paid by the ministry of religion in Ankara. Morocco does the same, but to a lesser extent. Both countries have laws that forbid forfeiting one’s nationality. Forever. One can live many generations abroad; if your great granddaddy was a Turk, so are you. Agreements with Western governments were made to keep their foreign citizens under control.

For example: if a Turkish father registers his newborn in a German or Dutch municipality, that German or Dutch civil servant will check if the registration is done according to Turkish law, and forward the information to the relevant Turkish authority. If that Turkish dad wants to call his son Heinrich or Jimmy, he can’t do that. Turkish law does not allow that. If his son wants to reject his Turkish citizenship in due time, he can’t. It doesn’t matter at all that his great-grandfather in the past moved to Germany, lived out his life and is buried there. His great-grandfather was a Turk, therefore his grandfather and father are Turks and so is he. You are a Turk forever.

Until Erdogan doesn’t like you, then it’s done in a flash. Several Turkish Germans already discovered that. They went to their consulate for something, were asked to show their Turkish passports and didn’t get them back. You are no longer Turk, they were told. Those Turkish Germans were, of course, no supporters of Erdogan to begin with.

Do not assimilate. Ever. 
It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
Can I still dissimulate, if I don't assimilate?
שלום

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 12:52:45 PM »
Quote
Those people are Turks. They feel they are Turks. They don’t feel any relation whatsoever with the country they happen to live in.

Wow, people who are treated like "others" don't identify with "us". Do psychologists know about this?
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 12:57:27 PM »
Wow, people who are treated like "others" don't identify with "us". Do psychologists know about this?

European fun ... they simply can't stop a vendetta that has been going on for 1000 years now (Turkish assault on Byzantium).  Erdogan wants to be the next Ottoman Sultan.
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Offline pr126

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2017, 01:34:07 PM »
Why is Turkey still member of NATO? Why is there still NATO?
It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2017, 04:56:37 PM »
Why is Turkey still member of NATO? Why is there still NATO?

Maybe to do with them having one of the largest militaries in the region, as well as it's strategic location.

As for why is there NATO, I shouldn't expect a Brit to understand the value of co-operation.
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2017, 05:24:33 PM »
I hope shoe is okay
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2017, 07:11:27 PM »
Why is Turkey still member of NATO? Why is there still NATO?

Without Nato ... y'all have to speak German.
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Offline pr126

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2017, 02:09:10 AM »
Without Nato ... y'all have to speak German.
Having lived in Switzerland for a number of years, I speak German.

But seriously, what is the point of NATO? An expensive military machine with no purpose?
It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Offline Baruch

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2017, 01:07:05 PM »
Having lived in Switzerland for a number of years, I speak German.

But seriously, what is the point of NATO? An expensive military machine with no purpose?

Purpose?  Apparently if you are paying attention since 2014 ... to rearm Germany, or put Nato under German control, so they can have another go at conquering Russia.  A bad idea for the French or the Germans.  They simply don't get Russian geography nor weather.  Germany now wants France and Britain to put their nukes under joint European control ... aka the German chancellor.
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Offline pr126

Re: Erdogan and Turkey's Executive Presidential Power Referendum
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2017, 01:43:33 PM »
Purpose?  Apparently if you are paying attention since 2014 ... to rearm Germany, or put Nato under German control, so they can have another go at conquering Russia.  A bad idea for the French or the Germans.  They simply don't get Russian geography nor weather.  Germany now wants France and Britain to put their nukes under joint European control ... aka the German chancellor.

Excellent idea. The end of Europe.

Germany could also recruit those millions of young Muslim "refugees" for the purpose, although I predict that they will leg it back to the  home countries quite sharpish if that was the case.



It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell