Author Topic: Opinions on Deathbed visions?  (Read 956 times)

Offline Manga (OP)

Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« on: March 18, 2017, 05:15:15 PM »
As many of you know, sometimes people (before they die) claim to have seen a spiritual entity which could have been a deceased loved one, or a religious figure. I read that these can even sometimes occur about a month before the person dies, or they can occur one hour before the person dies. People in favour of NDEs and deathbed visions like Peter Fenwick and Pim Van Lommel would argue that these cannot be hallucinations, as hallucinations would not be as clear, and they would not be calming and comforting. Rather they would be quick, scary to some people. They also say that medication cannot cause these sensations. What do you guys think?

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 05:21:24 PM »
What do I think? I think this doesn't really differ significantly of another thread you've already made, quite recently.

In any case. If someone can prove it's a 'supernatural' occurnance, I'll do my best to accept it as such.
Until that time. I see no need to.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Sorginak

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 05:33:26 PM »
People who are ignoring the actual science in favor of NDEs are mere apologists seeking to make their claims with no actual evidence to support them, per usual. 

Offline Baruch

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2017, 07:02:40 PM »
Yogis and saints ... live on their death-bed as a matter of discipline.  This is why some yogis practice "cremation ground" meditations.  Something anathema to the Western mind.  Of course Shiva is actually covered in the ashes of the cremation of his followers.  And that isn't even Tantra.
שלום

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2017, 07:14:42 PM »
When a person is near death their body chemistry is pretty much fubar, in addition to the fact the brain is probably not receiving all the oxygen it needs, and both contribute to hallucinations or vivid dreams.  Plus they are probably heavily medicated in many instances.
In dog beers I've only had one.

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2017, 07:47:50 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again:  The brain does funny things when deprived of oxygen.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 08:34:11 PM »
The body produces some pretty great chemicals when it is under extreme stress. NDEs are a result of that and the resulted hallucinations
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 09:39:02 PM »
As many of you know, sometimes people (before they die) claim to have seen a spiritual entity which could have been a deceased loved one, or a religious figure. I read that these can even sometimes occur about a month before the person dies, or they can occur one hour before the person dies. People in favour of NDEs and deathbed visions like Peter Fenwick and Pim Van Lommel would argue that these cannot be hallucinations, as hallucinations would not be as clear, and they would not be calming and comforting. Rather they would be quick, scary to some people. They also say that medication cannot cause these sensations. What do you guys think?

What do I think?  I usually pass and avoid claims from indoctrinated theists, and NDE claims almost always can be traced to indoctrinated theists.  In my limited anecdotal expereince, they often lie, misrepresent and demonstrate willful ignorance.  I choose not to waste time with them.

But go ahead and buy into it all you want if that's your choice.

Offline Baruch

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 09:52:10 PM »
If you have your own NDE or paranormal experience, good for you.  I don't believe in hallucination as ... false.  I consider human experience to be subjective and primary.  But I wouldn't seek them out.  The only reason for wanting to be different, is because you want to be special.  Ordinary experience is supernatural ... you don't need anything else.
שלום

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 01:36:32 PM »
I've seen dead people many times. Sometimes they were piled up in front of my guns.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2017, 02:08:27 PM »
I've seen dead people many times. Sometimes they were piled up in front of my guns.

Ah, but will you see them again ;-(  It is necessary to kill people sometimes ... if it was necessary, then you don't have much to worry about.
שלום

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2017, 03:16:42 PM »
Quote from: Baruch
If you have your own NDE or paranormal experience, good for you.  I don't believe in hallucination as ... false.  I consider human experience to be subjective and primary...
My whole "schizophrenic" experience began, when I was visited by a ghost of myself, from the future. That single event, altered the course of my life drastically. The next phase, was when I began hearing the voices of my neighbors, family and friends, speaking clearly, in the empty room with me. The same day that those voices began, I heard a voice coming from a disconnected speaker. It said: "If you can hear this, you're not a soulmate. Only dead people can hear at this level." That curious message repeated, over and over, non-stop until I left the apartment, and went to the hospital, in search of some help. When I got to the hospital, the same message was repeating, like an endless loop, over the P.A. speakers: "If you can hear this, you're not a soulmate. Only dead people can hear at this level." At one point, I remember hearing a nurse say, "Yeah, it's real, isn't it?" The hospital was a trip. It's like they had dealt with this phenomenon before, and they were secretly prepared to train me, on how to ascend to some new level of human awareness. I couldn't begin to describe all the fascinating weirdness. I embraced it, at first. It was all so new, and thrilling. It didn't take too long, before the only thing I wanted, was for it all to stop, and go back to normal.

Quote from: Baruch
...But I wouldn't seek them out.
I don't even know if "seeking them out," would really even work. At least not to the level that I am experiencing.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Baruch

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 03:35:54 PM »
One can experience the abnormal ... in a controlled way, or an uncontrolled way.  Certainly to be on an LSD trip without medical assistance, would be similar to your experience.  People argue if MJ as a medical thing ... should it be in a medical setting, or a recreational setting.  I could suspect that auditory clairvoyance ... is much as you experienced.  Shamen are people who were ... abnormal in some way, but recovered.  Having recovered ... yes, you would be different than if that hadn't happened.  That would be a truism.

I friend of mine underwent a terrible physical problem when in elementary school ... had to be in traction, away from his family, for years.  Eventually he recovered, and went back to his family and since then has been ordinary.  He is a completely different person, for having had that experience.  But not something one would volunteer for, if one could.  What I was cautioning, are people who seek out extraordinary experiences, because they want to be different, special.  If you can be ordinary .. then that is a good thing.

But I wouldn't privilege normality, any more than I would R-D political ideology (the majority POV).
שלום

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 03:54:39 PM »
LSD ain't got nothin' on this shit, Baruch. The "visitation," that started it off, was way beyond any kind of hallucination. My ex-girlfriend had been hearing my voice talking to her, for days, and came to me with the problem. We went for a drive, and to make a long story short, the ghostly future-me took control of steering the car, turned the windshield into a "movie-screen," and showed us scenes from my future. Hours of time went by, while the two of us witnessed this. When it was done, only a few seconds of actual time had passed, and one car had passed us on the road.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Opinions on Deathbed visions?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 04:12:02 PM »
"Crazy...Toys in the attic... I am crazy...Truly gone fishing..." - Pink Floyd: "The Trial"
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com