Author Topic: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?  (Read 645 times)

Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« on: March 17, 2017, 02:34:43 AM »
I don't think it ever will. I just don't think you'll ever get people to give up religion. I think the atheists who think we're on track to become an atheist world one day are delusional. I think religion will not only be with us forever, but will be of the majority forever.

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 02:36:50 AM »
I agree. We are an irrational species by default, and few tend to work on not being so.

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2017, 03:23:56 AM »
I don't think it's impossible. Whole countries where THE majority of THE people don't believe in god are fat and few in between. But they do exist, showing it's possible for a whole society to be, by THE norm, irreligious.
Is it probable this Will grow worldwide? No. Especially not with how THE world is today.
Would I see it become THE norm anytime soon? I thin I have a better chance of winning THE lotery 5 times consecutively, while simultaneously getting struck by lighting and discovering
Alien life, all in THE same year I get pronounced most handsome man alive.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2017, 03:36:56 AM »
I don't think it ever will. I just don't think you'll ever get people to give up religion. I think the atheists who think we're on track to become an atheist world one day are delusional. I think religion will not only be with us forever, but will be of the majority forever.
I disagree.



Atheist populations have steadily increased from virtually nothing to a frustratingly difficult to determine portion of the large but nebulous "non-religious" category - the #3 spot in the world behind Christians and Muslims.  It might be hard to picture people giving up religion, but that's evidently what's going on in many parts of the world, particularly in Western countries, and the data bears that out.

Here's what's been going on in the USA:







Of course, the USA is only around 5% of the world population, so don't cheer just yet.  According to Pew Research Center, the Unaffiliated category (which contains atheists, agnostics, non-religious, etc) is going to decline as a percentage of the world population by 2050.  Unaffiliated numbers will still be on the in the West, but not nearly as a fast as religious, particularly Muslim, populations in developing countries.  So any religious decline in the West is going to be more than offset by population booms in heavily religious developing countries.

The Gods may not be winning, but they're putting up a hell of a fight.  But as countries gain achieve better standards of living and access to education, and more countries experience demographic transition (high birth rates and high death rates --> low birth rates and low death rates), irreligion might just win out over religion, albeit at least a couple centuries from now.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 03:40:38 AM by Hydra009 »

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 04:01:14 AM »
I don't think it's impossible. Whole countries where THE majority of THE people don't believe in god are fat and few in between.
Eh, there are quite a few, depending on how you ask.  Adding non-religious and atheist together to clear that 50% bar seems like a bit of a cheat, though.  There's a pretty noticeable clustering in Europe and Asia.

(But just between you and me, I dunno if I'd count countries with state atheism.  All it takes is a big political shakeup and bam, back to the voodoo that they do so well.  China in particular looks like it's in the midst of a religious revival)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 04:04:56 AM by Hydra009 »

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 04:16:36 AM »
Eh, there are quite a few, depending on how you ask.  Adding non-religious and atheist together to clear that 50% bar seems like a bit of a cheat, though.  There's a pretty noticeable clustering in Europe and Asia.

(But just between you and me, I dunno if I'd count countries with state atheism.  All it takes is a big political shakeup and bam, back to the voodoo that they do so well.  China in particular looks like it's in the midst of a religious revival)

Yeah, you're right on state atheism. I wouldn't count state atheism neither. It's like religion without a god. It's mandatory, not up to freedom of (dis)belief and in many cases it involves making the state or the leader of the state the placeholder-deity.
Still 19 countries, more than I'd figured, I admit, but still less than 10% of the world's countries. And I don't even know how many people we're talking about relative to the world's population here.
Problem with these countings, of course, is that they often don't accurately represent atheism itself. As you say: depending on the way you ask. And I don't count being without religion as atheist.
Belgium's said to be 75% catholic, according to the CIA's world factbook, but a lot of us have falen into religiouslessness . We are only counted as catholic due to our baptism. My brother, for example is one of many I know who are not religious, but who do believe in the 'Greater Something', a divine creator, even if we can't understand his will. I prefer the hell out of that to dogmatic preachers, but I can't count them as atheist. That being said, for the main part, at least in our bigger cities, if you come out as atheist, despite not being a majority, you don't get judged for it. At least I don't usually get that feeling. The only source of 'conflict' I've ever gotten was from the Islamic cultures and Christians from African descent. But most people just don't care.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 04:22:21 AM by Mr.Obvious »
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Baruch

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 06:38:22 AM »
I don't think it ever will. I just don't think you'll ever get people to give up religion. I think the atheists who think we're on track to become an atheist world one day are delusional. I think religion will not only be with us forever, but will be of the majority forever.

I also agree.  Progress of humanity is chauvinist propaganda, usually by the West.  Atheist is a minority personality type ... it will always be with us, as will the more common theist varieties.  Nothing wrong with that.  Diversity is a good thing.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 06:40:01 AM »
I don't think it's impossible. Whole countries where THE majority of THE people don't believe in god are fat and few in between. But they do exist, showing it's possible for a whole society to be, by THE norm, irreligious.
Is it probable this Will grow worldwide? No. Especially not with how THE world is today.
Would I see it become THE norm anytime soon? I thin I have a better chance of winning THE lotery 5 times consecutively, while simultaneously getting struck by lighting and discovering
Alien life, all in THE same year I get pronounced most handsome man alive.

Yes, the Dinka in Africa, are a very popular and world conquering tribe.  Expecting people to give up religion, is like expecting them to give up politics, language, art etc ... religion is a cultural artifact, same as those.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 06:43:14 AM »
Yeah, you're right on state atheism. I wouldn't count state atheism neither. It's like religion without a god. It's mandatory, not up to freedom of (dis)belief and in many cases it involves making the state or the leader of the state the placeholder-deity.
Still 19 countries, more than I'd figured, I admit, but still less than 10% of the world's countries. And I don't even know how many people we're talking about relative to the world's population here.
Problem with these countings, of course, is that they often don't accurately represent atheism itself. As you say: depending on the way you ask. And I don't count being without religion as atheist.
Belgium's said to be 75% catholic, according to the CIA's world factbook, but a lot of us have falen into religiouslessness . We are only counted as catholic due to our baptism. My brother, for example is one of many I know who are not religious, but who do believe in the 'Greater Something', a divine creator, even if we can't understand his will. I prefer the hell out of that to dogmatic preachers, but I can't count them as atheist. That being said, for the main part, at least in our bigger cities, if you come out as atheist, despite not being a majority, you don't get judged for it. At least I don't usually get that feeling. The only source of 'conflict' I've ever gotten was from the Islamic cultures and Christians from African descent. But most people just don't care.

It is well known that religious statistics are fake, everywhere, not just in China.  Faking statistics is a necessary political policy ... such as GDP, CPI etc.  The failure of culture in Europe, is reflected by the failure of religion in Europe.  Don't Care ... applies to a lot of things.  Grand Mal syndrome.
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Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 06:44:34 AM »
It is well known that religious statistics are fake, everywhere, not just in China.  Faking statistics is a necessary political policy ... such as GDP, CPI etc.  The failure of culture in Europe, is reflected by the failure of religion in Europe.  Don't Care ... applies to a lot of things.  Grand Mal syndrome.

Failure of culture?
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Baruch

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 06:55:37 AM »
Failure of culture?

Most of what a group of people do, is culture.  I am not speaking of music per se etc ... though that is included.  The Europeans in general and the French in particular, like to think very highly of their culture.  Being of mostly European ancestry, I tend to agree.  But that is our shared chauvinism.  There is a general failure in Europe, that happened with modernity, that became particularly acute in the 20th century.  The reason for WW I and WW II and the Cold War .. is because Europe is failing as a civilization.  Now the EU seems to be failing also.  This will of course have a negative impact on everything from family life to rock & roll.  Since Islam is rising, and may be as per Toynbee, a more vigorous civilization, this would explain, aside from geography, that Europe's future is Islamic.  I think the personal and old fashioned word is ... enervated.  Metaphorically, Europe has simply masturbated itself into a stupor, and couldn't care less if a babe is in the room.  Or another metaphor, is so drunk all the time, it can't get to work in the morning.  Over stimulation (see Internet porn) is a problem with ape men.

And I am not claiming Americans/Canadians etc are superior to Europe ... we are new-improved Europeans, after all.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:57:26 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 07:08:49 AM »
Most of what a group of people do, is culture.  I am not speaking of music per se etc ... though that is included.  The Europeans in general and the French in particular, like to think very highly of their culture.  Being of mostly European ancestry, I tend to agree.  But that is our shared chauvinism.  There is a general failure in Europe, that happened with modernity, that became particularly acute in the 20th century.  The reason for WW I and WW II and the Cold War .. is because Europe is failing as a civilization.  Now the EU seems to be failing also.  This will of course have a negative impact on everything from family life to rock & roll.  Since Islam is rising, and may be as per Toynbee, a more vigorous civilization, this would explain, aside from geography, that Europe's future is Islamic.  I think the personal and old fashioned word is ... enervated.  Metaphorically, Europe has simply masturbated itself into a stupor, and couldn't care less if a babe is in the room.  Or another metaphor, is so drunk all the time, it can't get to work in the morning.  Over stimulation (see Internet porn) is a problem with ape men.

And I am not claiming Americans/Canadians etc are superior to Europe ... we are new-improved Europeans, after all.

I'd even say all of what people do is culture.

However I think you and I have a different look on what culture entails. To say it can fail is to say it can succeed. I don't think they can. I don't think they try. Cultures just are. And one day, cultures just are no more. Failure and succes seem such loaded words, not applicable here, I think.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline etienne

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 09:44:56 AM »
Yes, in the hopefully not too far off future, when all/most humans figure out that it is only they themselves that can correct the problems that they have invented for themselves--their bad oppressive, systems, in particular--and eradicate capitalism, which will destroy them and the planet, and move to a more socialist/communist system.  Better education for all in science and rational thought/philosophy/ethics and cooperation will eventually eradicate all religions from the planet.  The blueprints already exist.

Science and healthy living and equitable resource distribution globally will ease the fear of death and prolong lifespan on average.  People mainly believe in God/religion because they are afraid of death. 

Aspects of the various religious culture--dress, food, and the like--could remain as vestiges for enjoyment only.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:51:51 AM by etienne »
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Offline etienne

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 09:50:49 AM »
I don't think it's impossible. Whole countries where THE majority of THE people don't believe in god are fat and few in between. But they do exist, showing it's possible for a whole society to be, by THE norm, irreligious.
Is it probable this Will grow worldwide? No. Especially not with how THE world is today.
Would I see it become THE norm anytime soon? I thin I have a better chance of winning THE lotery 5 times consecutively, while simultaneously getting struck by lighting and discovering
Alien life, all in THE same year I get pronounced most handsome man alive.
I think the younger generations are less and less functionally religious or believers.  Maybe I am wrong about that, but that's my take, anyway.  I suppose it could all get rolled back if all those Christo-Fascists--"American Taliban"--get their way, but that will be eventually be overcome by rationality, science and cooperation.  If nothing else, Nature will force the issue as it is already doing.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 09:56:40 AM by etienne »
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Offline etienne

Re: Do you think atheism will ever become the norm?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 10:24:07 AM »
The American Taliban does have their own terrorist state, they call it, "Al-Abama"...
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...