Author Topic: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?  (Read 491 times)

Offline etienne

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 09:18:15 AM »
Metaphorically speaking, "meeting Jesus," "walking with Jesus," or similar clichés, are empty claims typical of the faithful.  They are simple exaggerations of claims to knowledge.  But if you actually see Jesus, that would be a psychotic break, and you need help.
What if your shrink "sees Jesus" too?!  :kiddingme:
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Online aitm

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 06:40:36 PM »
Interesting.....in my many years I have never heard of a person of another faith "seeing" jesus. Ever. Not in NDE nor in any way shape or form. Which I have always used to as "proof" that religion is so culturally driven that no muslim ever woke up from dream of jebus nor a jew of krishna nor a hindu of allah.

Can you supply us with your "evidence" or is it merely stories from a friend of a cousin whose brother once knew  guy....
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Manga (OP)

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 11:20:51 PM »
You want proof?

Hindu has an NDE of Jesus:
http://www.sakshitimes.net/blog/2008/01/01/near-death-experience-encountering-jesus-669/

Muslim sees Jesus:


Another:





http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=14322

there are so many links, my girlfriend's priest sent these to me, as he wants me to convert to Christianity, and now I am starting to think that I should because I can't find any NDEs of Muslims meeting Muhammad.

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 11:25:03 PM »
You want proof?

Hindu has an NDE of Jesus:
[snip]

Muslim sees Jesus:
[snip]

Another:

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

there are so many links, my girlfriend's priest sent these to me, as he wants me to convert to Christianity, and now I am starting to think that I should because I can't find any NDEs of Muslims meeting Muhammad.

Word of mouth is not proof. And I'm starting to doubt your words too.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:06:39 AM by Blackleaf »

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2017, 03:15:52 AM »
You want proof?

Hindu has an NDE of Jesus:

Muslim sees Jesus:

Another:

there are so many links, my girlfriend's priest sent these to me, as he wants me to convert to Christianity, and now I am starting to think that I should because I can't find any NDEs of Muslims meeting Muhammad.

Have you even read everyone's reactions to your opening statement? If so, how the hell did you come to the conclusion that we'd see these pics as proof of Christianity? If not, why are you even here?

(Edit: links removed to keep a clear oversight on the page.)
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Baruch

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2017, 03:33:28 AM »
If a Hindu, had an NDE of Jesus, in Hindi ... and had never been exposed to Christianity before (how could that be today?) ... that would be interesting.  But I don't think any of the reporting believers lived in isolation from other cultures.  And NDE would be at best, like a vivid dream, and what a vivid dream is, is still considered ... unreal by most people.
שלום

Offline SGOS

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2017, 08:55:32 AM »
there are so many links, my girlfriend's priest sent these to me, as he wants me to convert to Christianity, and now I am starting to think that I should because I can't find any NDEs of Muslims meeting Muhammad.
Near death experiences are just dreams.  You do not see actual dead people or Heaven.  In fact, you aren't even dead.  But tell a guy he was dead when he had a dream (patients claim their doctor told them they died to increase the dramatic content of their tale).  Apparently thinking you were dead when you have a dream makes the dream seem special.  But it's just a dream.  We know that the person reporting "NEAR" death experiences was never dead, because he is telling a story after he says he died.  I hope you see the problem there.

First you claim that a phenomenal claim made by charlatans and nut cases is an actual event.  But an illogical claim does not become more credible just because you introduce an irrelevant and questionable claim like "Muslims don't see Muhammad when they die and come back to life."

Illogical claims fail when a fallacy is introduced as part of the argument.  Your claim fails in more than one place. It's a astonishingly horrible example of reasoning.  It's so far outside the realm of rational and filled with such trivial and irrelevant nonsense that rational people will eventually just throw up their hands and walk away when they recognize you don't have the basic skills necessary to craft a logical progression of thought.

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2017, 02:46:23 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again:  The brain does funny things when deprived of oxygen.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline Manga (OP)

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2017, 03:30:42 PM »
There have been studies which claim that it is not a result of oxygen deprivation.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-neuroscience-struggles-to-explain-near-death-experiences/

There was one study where 30 people who had NDEs were found to have more oxygen in their brains that those who did not. Also, Dr. Jerrfry Long has a book which apparently debunks the oxygen theory. Do you think that oxygen deprivation could still be partially true?

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 04:49:35 PM »
There have been studies which claim that it is not a result of oxygen deprivation.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-neuroscience-struggles-to-explain-near-death-experiences/

There was one study where 30 people who had NDEs were found to have more oxygen in their brains that those who did not. Also, Dr. Jerrfry Long has a book which apparently debunks the oxygen theory. Do you think that oxygen deprivation could still be partially true?

It's also been found that the brain does continue to function after the body is legally dead. In fact, it's like a surge of activity, which understandably could create sensations that feel very real.

Offline Baruch

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2017, 07:00:15 PM »
The Yoga sutras of Patanjali teach that "siddhis" special experiences are not to be sought out.  They occur in altered states of consciousness, and people who take drugs (LSD) experience them (see Ram Das).  This is not unlike thrill junkies who do bungee cord jumping ;-( ... so I suspect adrenalin rush is also involved.
שלום

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2017, 07:45:43 PM »
There have been studies which claim that it is not a result of oxygen deprivation.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/314115-neuroscience-struggles-to-explain-near-death-experiences/

There was one study where 30 people who had NDEs were found to have more oxygen in their brains that those who did not. Also, Dr. Jerrfry Long has a book which apparently debunks the oxygen theory. Do you think that oxygen deprivation could still be partially true?

There have been definitive studies that have showed that lack of oxygen is definitely a major contributing factor.  There is nothing paranormal about near-death experiences
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline doorknob

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2017, 07:03:30 AM »
UM many NDEs are generic. As in the experience does not nessisarily claim a specific god in many NDEs

http://www.near-death.com/religion/islam.html

Of course the Christians will flood the internet with their bullshit! You aren't likely to find stories of NDEs on our network that support any god but theirs , you'd more likely have to go to websites that speak the language of the native, and you aren't very likely to speak that language so good luck with that.

according to research people experience their own religion when dying. This is mostly the case that has been reported. The research is more accurate than hearsay you'll find on the internet. I'd trust science not christian mumbo jumbo.

Offline SGOS

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2017, 08:35:37 AM »
Quote
There was one study where 30 people who had NDEs were found to have more oxygen in their brains that those who did not. Also, Dr. Jerrfry Long has a book which apparently debunks the oxygen theory. Do you think that oxygen deprivation could still be partially true?
Yes, I think it's mostly deprivation, although when circulation stops, oxygen might get trapped in the brain, although I'm speculating on the mechanics of oxygen transport.  Having said that, too much oxygen also affects our mental functioning, and the effect is surprising similar to the NDE experience.  Deep sea divers may have been the first to experience high overdoses of oxygen, which (I have heard) can lead to strange behaviors as taking off their diving equipment thinking they can breath under water):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

Quote
Protocols for avoidance of the effects of hyperoxia exist in fields where oxygen is breathed at higher-than-normal partial pressures, including underwater diving using compressed breathing gases, hyperbaric medicine, neonatal care and human spaceflight. These protocols have resulted in the increasing rarity of seizures due to oxygen toxicity, with pulmonary and ocular damage being mainly confined to the problems of managing premature infants.

In recent years, oxygen has become available for recreational use in oxygen bars. The US Food and Drug Administration has warned those suffering from problems such as heart or lung disease not to use oxygen bars. Scuba divers use breathing gases containing up to 100% oxygen, and should have specific training in using such gases.

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2017, 12:11:11 PM »
Near death experiences are just dreams.  You do not see actual dead people or Heaven.  In fact, you aren't even dead.  But tell a guy he was dead when he had a dream (patients claim their doctor told them they died to increase the dramatic content of their tale). 
Apparently those Christians don't read their own Bibles. Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

It also says that the dead are reserved for judgement. So even according to the Bible, dead is dead.