Author Topic: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?  (Read 920 times)

Offline Manga (OP)

Hello everyone!
I am an agnostic from an Islamic background, and recently, a friend has tried to get me to "go" Christian. She introduced me to all these Near Death Experience stories. I found the topic interesting, and realized that many of the people who had them claim to have met Jesus. At first, I dismissed them, as I read that they are based on one's culture. However, a recent church service I went to with her, the Priest challenged people to find one NDE where a Muslim meets Muhammad, or a Hindu meets Krishna. I took up the challenge, and searched. I could not find any Muslim NDEs where a Muslim met Muhammad. I went as far as to search google Saudi Arabia in Arabic and Google Turkey in Turkish, still nothing. I did find NDEs of Muslims reporting that they met Jesus, and he told them to become CHristian. I also found one with a Hindu woman who saw Jesus too. I found so many with Jesus, that I am wondering whether or not that means that Christianity has more merit than the other faiths? Let's say it is in fact true that not one Muslim ever saw Muhammad during an NDE, or that not one Hindu saw Krishna, but Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus saw Jesus, would you believe that Christianity is the true faith?

Offline Sorginak

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 08:36:47 PM »
Anything that requires religious faith has no relevance in reality.


Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 08:42:56 PM »
Once, when I was sick as a child, I had a fever dream, where a man in a white robe was standing in my back yard. In the dream, I was playing with some friends, and when I saw him, I thought he was an angel. Then my friend said, "It's Jesus! You must be dead!" I started towards him, and he started rising into the air. He said, "You can't come yet." But I was determined to go with him, and as he was slowly ascending, I grabbed a long stick, and tried to pole-vault myself up to him. Then he said, more firmly, "No! You can't come yet! You don't have enough faith!"

Not a NDE, but still a little strange, considering I had only a small amount church indoctrination, at that age.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 10:19:08 PM »
anything is possible including:

1. Jesus is real, but is nothing like the description in the Bible.
2. I can pay you to have a NDE that supports my position.
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Offline Baruch

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 10:49:37 PM »
Theophanies are common to all religions ... and religious people of X religion, interpret them accordingly.  NDEs can be a kind of paranormal event.  Of course the paranormal events are interesting, but they can never be scientifically verified, because they are non-repeatable and usually subjective.  I have had some small experience with paranormal events, but they aren't decisive in why I am a theist.  Magic tricks are not impressive if you know how the trick (psychology) is accomplished.  The choice as to which religion is more real, to a theist, depends on their individual psychology and cultural background.  And it gets confusing with Islam, because Islam accepts prophets prior to Muhammad.  IMHO ... Muhammad is a real prophet ... but not the only one ... but there is one G-d, so all prophets reflect that ... with different cultural baggage.  I understand why Arabs feel that Muhammad is the purest message ... but culturally I have to disagree for myself.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 10:53:27 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 11:15:43 PM »
Hello everyone!
I am an agnostic from an Islamic background, and recently, a friend has tried to get me to "go" Christian. She introduced me to all these Near Death Experience stories. I found the topic interesting, and realized that many of the people who had them claim to have met Jesus. At first, I dismissed them, as I read that they are based on one's culture. However, a recent church service I went to with her, the Priest challenged people to find one NDE where a Muslim meets Muhammad, or a Hindu meets Krishna. I took up the challenge, and searched. I could not find any Muslim NDEs where a Muslim met Muhammad. I went as far as to search google Saudi Arabia in Arabic and Google Turkey in Turkish, still nothing. I did find NDEs of Muslims reporting that they met Jesus, and he told them to become CHristian. I also found one with a Hindu woman who saw Jesus too. I found so many with Jesus, that I am wondering whether or not that means that Christianity has more merit than the other faiths? Let's say it is in fact true that not one Muslim ever saw Muhammad during an NDE, or that not one Hindu saw Krishna, but Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus saw Jesus, would you believe that Christianity is the true faith?
No
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 02:56:31 AM »
Hello everyone!
I am an agnostic from an Islamic background, and recently, a friend has tried to get me to "go" Christian. She introduced me to all these Near Death Experience stories. I found the topic interesting, and realized that many of the people who had them claim to have met Jesus. At first, I dismissed them, as I read that they are based on one's culture. However, a recent church service I went to with her, the Priest challenged people to find one NDE where a Muslim meets Muhammad, or a Hindu meets Krishna. I took up the challenge, and searched. I could not find any Muslim NDEs where a Muslim met Muhammad. I went as far as to search google Saudi Arabia in Arabic and Google Turkey in Turkish, still nothing. I did find NDEs of Muslims reporting that they met Jesus, and he told them to become CHristian. I also found one with a Hindu woman who saw Jesus too. I found so many with Jesus, that I am wondering whether or not that means that Christianity has more merit than the other faiths? Let's say it is in fact true that not one Muslim ever saw Muhammad during an NDE, or that not one Hindu saw Krishna, but Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus saw Jesus, would you believe that Christianity is the true faith?



I've seen all kinds of claims from Christians who supposedly were first something else, but the way they talk often reveals that they are BSing everyone. Just because someone posts something on the internet doesn't make it true. I could claim to be a former Muslim, Hindu, or anything else. I'd also remind you that most of the civilized world is either Christian or living in a society that is highly saturated by Christianity. Even if you're an atheist living here in America, if you dream of going to Heaven, I'd expect you'd imagine meeting Jesus first over Muhammed.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 06:23:20 AM »
OP, short answer; no.

More fun answer: In some asian subcultures there's a psychological delusion called Koro which is not found in many other places in The world. Or at least hardly found. Yet in asia, it's relatively frequent. It involves an irrational belief that a male's penis will retract into his body; leading to his death. Seeing as these asians experience this fear, but others around The world do not, do you believe there is some ground to this Culture-specific syndrome?

Brains are strange things, shaping our lives and experiences only as much as they are shaped by them. I hardly trust a functional one. Let alone one faced with imminent demise.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Baruch

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 06:33:01 AM »
OP, short answer; no.

More fun answer: In some asian subcultures there's a psychological delusion called Koro which is not found in many other places in The world. Or at least hardly found. Yet in asia, it's relatively frequent. It involves an irrational belief that a male's penis will retract into his body; leading to his death. Seeing as these asians experience this fear, but others around The world do not, do you believe there is some ground to this Culture-specific syndrome?

Brains are strange things, shaping our lives and experiences only as much as they are shaped by them. I hardly trust a functional one. Let alone one faced with imminent demise.

Yes, there are culturally specific syndromes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome

So far, nobody has a nervous breakdown over Brussels ... unless you count Brexit advocates ;-)

So you are agreeing with Pr126 then ... trust nobody?  That seems to be a syndrome of the breakdown of Western civilization.  If you can't trust your own brain, why trust anyone!

The EU exists! ... culturally specific insane delusion
The US exists! ... culturally specific insane delusion
Putin has a bigger penis than I do ... seems common to US Democrats ;-)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 06:36:41 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Mr.Obvious

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 07:15:43 AM »
So you are agreeing with Pr126 then ... trust nobody?  That seems to be a syndrome of the breakdown of Western civilization.  If you can't trust your own brain, why trust anyone!

I said I hardly trust a functional brain, Baruch. I do make an effort. ;-)
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline etienne

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 07:36:09 AM »
Those that think they are seeing "Jesus" or take a trip to "Hell" and back are generally suffering from serious delusions/hallucinations.  Make them give proof, photo, vid, YouTube upload, live stream, something, anything.  Hard evidence.  They can't, so that answers your question.

I knew a guy who said he saw "Jesus" near his horse stables.  I asked him for a photo or vid, but evidently "Jesus" had "bigger fish" to fry, couldn't stick around long enough for the photo op, which surely could have changed the current world situation, hopefully for the better.  And "Jesus" never came back to visit the guy again.  That's not nice.

Neuroscientists say that "tunnel of light" folks see at death is basically the brain's "electrical" shutting down, "unplugging" itself, so there's a flash of sorts, likje a camera flash, like unplugging a cord from a socket and you get that quick blue flash.  The brain has alot of "electricity" running thru it, apparently.
 

But let's say "Jesus" actually exists.  So what?  He didn't do crap to change the oppressive master/slave society when he was there and has done ZERO to effect any change whatsoever in capitalist/imperialist violence, oppression on the earth today or EVER.  And he doesn't save anyone from random accidents, disease, or violence, or war, or natural disasters.  "He" and his "Father in Heaven" are woefully inadequate at helping the oppressed in the world.  Well, they don't exist.  Marx, Lenin, Mao, Castro, Guevara were far, FAR more important and influential human beings in the world effecting betterment for humankind than Dead Jesus.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:41:49 AM by etienne »
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Offline etienne

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 07:45:46 AM »
Once, when I was sick as a child, I had a fever dream, where a man in a white robe was standing in my back yard. In the dream, I was playing with some friends, and when I saw him, I thought he was an angel. Then my friend said, "It's Jesus! You must be dead!" I started towards him, and he started rising into the air. He said, "You can't come yet." But I was determined to go with him, and as he was slowly ascending, I grabbed a long stick, and tried to pole-vault myself up to him. Then he said, more firmly, "No! You can't come yet! You don't have enough faith!"

Not a NDE, but still a little strange, considering I had only a small amount church indoctrination, at that age.
That was rather cruel of "him".
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Offline etienne

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 07:50:39 AM »
In my mid 20s, I was in a Christian occult type thing where you were supposed to see "bright Lights" and if you practiced good enough, you would one day be able to "ascend into Heaven".  I had convinced myself that I was, in fact, "seeing lights".  After I quit the cult, I never "saw lights" anymore.  The mind will trick you:  believing is seeing.  And no one from that cult has ever "ascended" they are all still walking around on Earth.
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Offline SGOS

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2017, 09:11:04 AM »
Hello everyone!
I could not find any Muslim NDEs where a Muslim met Muhammad. I went as far as to search google Saudi Arabia in Arabic and Google Turkey in Turkish, still nothing. I did find NDEs of Muslims reporting that they met Jesus, and he told them to become CHristian. I also found one with a Hindu woman who saw Jesus too. I found so many with Jesus, that I am wondering whether or not that means that Christianity has more merit than the other faiths?
Metaphorically speaking, "meeting Jesus," "walking with Jesus," or similar clichés, are empty claims typical of the faithful.  They are simple exaggerations of claims to knowledge.  But if you actually see Jesus, that would be a psychotic break, and you need help.

Offline SGOS

Re: Do these experiences of "seeing" Jesus give Christianity more clout?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 09:15:57 AM »
Wouldn't a Muslim be sent to the everlasting fires of Hell if he saw Muhammad?  Or is that just for drawing him?  If you saw Muhammad, I would say you were nuts.  If you had a photo, I'd say you were really nuts.