Democrat Strategy vs. Trump

[reasonist]

i am not far from natural termination.  I certainly don't want to live forever always getting older.  Just ask my Mom in the nursing home ;-(  But better than putting her on an ice flow with the other Eskimos.

History requires major adjustments.  Turns out, when you come out of the Matrix, disorientation results.  Followed by reOrientation, Chinese style.  We won't be adjusting to turning into Canada.  Maybe turn into Mexico instead.  Gangs of Juarez.  Depends on what the Tongs/Triads of Beijing want.  The fantasy of the Progressives, and their Manifest Destiny ... laughable if it did't hurt so much.  We don't live in the world we want (good and bad thing) ... such a thing is a denial of empiricism, and a childish wish fulfillment.  Maybe Santa will come down from the N Pole to Canada (first stop along with Russia and Norway and Iceland) and drop off more toys for y'all.

Reality are the slums of London, and Oliver Twist.  You  get your bowl of gruel, and don't ask for more, punk!

I sense resignation, Baruch. Spinoza would turn in his grave...
What strikes me as very odd is the apathy of the American people. You pay double for way less than the rest of the developed world for health care. You are the only country in the western world with an actual decline in life expectancy! You pay more than double for prescription drugs than say Canada or European countries. But then you Yanks think you are sooo different from the rest of the world. Something that works everywhere else cannot be done in the US? It'll wreck the economy by saving trillions at the same time? 
I don't want to live forever either Baruch and I am right behind you and Mike, but until I kick the bucket I should have proper care for a proper price. While your Mom pays twice as much for drugs than I, big Pharma made 40 billion in profits last year in your neck of the woods! All on the backs of sick people. That seems to be perfectly all right, I don't see people by the millions in the streets demanding a better bang for their buck. All I see is political infighting to keep pretty much the status quo or make it even worse (Trump). Bernie got it right, and he has the balls to point out the obvious. Spending 18% of your GDP on LOUSY health care and that only for a part of your population is sheer insanity and unsustainable! THAT will wreck your economy, not unemployed insurance workers.

[SGOS]

I sense resignation, Baruch. Spinoza would turn in his grave...
What strikes me as very odd is the apathy of the American people. You pay double for way less than the rest of the developed world for health care. You are the only country in the western world with an actual decline in life expectancy! You pay more than double for prescription drugs than say Canada or European countries. But then you Yanks think you are sooo different from the rest of the world. Something that works everywhere else cannot be done in the US? It'll wreck the economy by saving trillions at the same time? 
I don't want to live forever either Baruch and I am right behind you and Mike, but until I kick the bucket I should have proper care for a proper price. While your Mom pays twice as much for drugs than I, big Pharma made 40 billion in profits last year in your neck of the woods! All on the backs of sick people. That seems to be perfectly all right, I don't see people by the millions in the streets demanding a better bang for their buck. All I see is political infighting to keep pretty much the status quo or make it even worse (Trump). Bernie got it right, and he has the balls to point out the obvious. Spending 18% of your GDP on LOUSY health care and that only for a part of your population is sheer insanity and unsustainable! THAT will wreck your economy, not unemployed insurance workers.

This makes a lot of sense.  I guess I need to go back and read the post that says "what works for other countries can't work here."  I've read it once, but I'm still not understanding why.  I remember a few politicians saying it won't work here, and when I would hear them say that, I would lean in close, because I expected a reason to follow, and I'm really interested in the reason, but they didn't give one.  People seem to be satisfied with that.

Insurance companies give a lot of money to our politicians.  I understand that.  They are lobbying to keep their profits up.  Our premier program, Medicare, even offered to everyone, won't kill them, because to be fully covered for the big medical problems you still have to buy private insurance out of pocket.  For me that's $200/month and has doubled in the last three years, and basic Medicare most people supplement with Part B (another $100 out of pocket) and/or Part D. I opt out of Part D, however.  Private insurers might have to tighten their belts, but that wouldn't put them out of business.  I don't know what other part of the economy would be hurt other than insurance companies.

Yes, there are other things we need to do in healthcare, although politicians don't like to do things.  Things that could be done are mostly political footballs to be used in campaigns in their view.  But they could be done.  A Canadian once told me, they went through pretty much the same debates before they passed their program, but we can't get past the debate.  It's become part of the status quo and a hot button issue to keep the voters riled up for election day.

[Baruch]

Some people are Europeans in Europe.  Fewer people are Europeans in Canada.  But even fewer people are Europeans in the US.  This isn't a matter of Platonic argumentation, it is cultural.  All Americans are millionaires or wanna-be millionaires.  We all want to pay more not less for everything.  A $100,000 Rolls is 10x better than a $10,000 used Ford.  If we attack the rich, we are being jealous peasants (aka Europeans).  We want to overpay, we believe in Lotto, and conspicuous consumption.  That the more toys you have when you die, the better.  And yes, there are bargain hunters (who follow fake marketing).  If we could clip coupons to bet 10 cents off of $100 of medical care, we would be all over that .. forgetting that the actual medical care is only worth $10 to begin with.  Americans are crazy optimists, not crazy pessimists.

[Sorginak]

Let us just be absolutely honest.

Americans want to be greedy.

There has to be something stated for a country that allows greed to drop its reputation in ratings.

When it comes to health care in America, we have created for ourselves a system whereby doctors are still getting paid despite people being unable to pay for health care.  Certainly, that keeps the doctors rich, but it bankrupts the country.  That is not how it should work. 

[Sorginak]

Okay, so my boyfriend has this to state: We don't have universal health care in America because insurance companies would no longer be in business. 

[SGOS]

Okay, so my boyfriend has this to state: We don't have universal health care in America because insurance companies would no longer be in business. 

Yeah, that pretty much nails it.  Sign him up for the forum.

[Cavebear]

The idea that health care COULD expand to all absorb all resources IS a possibility.  That equally can't be allowed to happen. 

[Baruch]

The idea that health care COULD expand to all absorb all resources IS a possibility.  That equally can't be allowed to happen.

That won't literally happen, but it might get to 90%.  Quibble over percentages, while you are ripping the last bread crumb from your starving neighbor's fingers.  So who is it that allows X or disallows Y ... Obama in his Cheney bunker?

[Sylar]

Not sure how reliable this is, considering it hasn't been picked up by major news outlets:

McConnell: ObamaCare 'status quo' will stay in place moving forward

Quite surprising from the man who essentially founded modern obstructionist-partisan politics.

You know, wherever you stand on the issue of US health care, it is mind boggling that GOP spent seven years (since March 2010) complaining about ACA, meaning they had seven years to fine-tune their own plan. Instead, they put together a bill in a couple of weeks, blew it through committees, only to watch it die in the House for lack of votes. The incompetence is staggering.

I can only conclude from this that they never had a plan. It was always much easier to be against whatever Obama was for. If Obama said the sky was blue, they'd say it's red. In their moment of truth, they collapsed.

That is because ACA was a Republican plan. It was Newt Gingrich plan to stop "Health Czar" Hillary Clinton in the 90s from coming up with single-payer plan. It was an alternative that didn't get rid of insurance companies and allowed them to still make money, but gave a form of universal coverage. It was first tested in MA, by GOP governor Mitt Romney. And that's why Obama proposed it: he figured Republicans wouldn't vote against their own plan. But he was wrong; the fact that he agreed with them made it wrong.

And the problem now? Republicans came up with their best plan (ACA) and now have to oppose their very own plan, and have nothing further to propose. A classic hoist with your own petard.

[Sylar]

Okay, so my boyfriend has this to state: We don't have universal health care in America because insurance companies would no longer be in business.

Yes, exactly. Money talks. Also, Ds are very keen on compromise, and just basically need to grow some fucking claws.

Our country pays more per capita for health care than most of western world, and it does so without a correspondingly good set of outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality rate). In other words, shit's not workin'.

[Unbeliever]

The point is ACA had no hope of ever being a success with all GOP hurdles in past 8 years, yet you are blaming Obama and those who drafted ACA. Sure, they did not write 100% foolproof legislation, but it is the job of our elected officials to fix existing legislation rather than to inform us of its shortcomings, then spend 6 years not only doing nothing to fix it but also making sure it fails even further.

Which brings us to my OP:
-President gets blamed for everything and anything during his tenure.
-Democrats must ensure Trump fails at all costs because, well, president gets blamed for everything and anything.

No one seems to remember what the GOP did to undermine the ACA:

Marco Rubio Quietly Undermines Affordable Care Act

The risk corridors were intended to help some insurance companies if they ended up with too many new sick people on their rolls and too little cash from premiums to cover their medical bills in the first three years under the health law. But because of Mr. Rubio’s efforts, the administration says it will pay only 13 percent of what insurance companies were expecting to receive this year. The payments were supposed to help insurers cope with the risks they assumed when they decided to participate in the law’s new insurance marketplaces.

Mr. Rubio’s talking point is bumper-sticker ready. The payments, he says, are “a taxpayer-funded bailout for insurance companies.” But without them, insurers say, many consumers will face higher premiums and may have to scramble for other coverage. Already, some insurers have shut down over the unexpected shortfall.

Then all everyone can talk about is that "premiums have sky-rocketed!" without asking why they did so.

Thanks Rubio!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AfZ4RV8vCQ

[Baruch]

ACA like Solyndra, will continue natural decay, but also helped into the policy grave, by the anxious R party grave diggers.  You can't afford stupid, no matter how economizing you try to make it.  We are all the Queen of England, we are all entitled, we all deserve the Trillion Dollar Platinum Coin ... says right there in the preamble to the US Constitution.  Stupid.  Like a teen boy covered with zits, who believes he is entitled to date the Prom Queen.  None of you are equal to anyone else.  Equality = equally dead.

[Sylar]

No one seems to remember what the GOP did to undermine the ACA:

Marco Rubio Quietly Undermines Affordable Care Act

Then all everyone can talk about is that "premiums have sky-rocketed!" without asking why they did so.

Thanks Rubio!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AfZ4RV8vCQ

Indeed; the article posted in my OP also touches about this subject. People always blame the president whether he was at fault or not -- and it is with this mindset that Democrats need to draft their strategy to win 2018 elections (and beyond).

Which brings me to:

Wrong answer. Healthcare is just an "issue," until you need it. The situation has to be remedied. But the Dracorian bill, that the Republicans put on the table, is exactly the opposite of what is needed. The  working poor can't afford to get sick, or they will be in debt for life(assuming anyone will help them). I don't care who tries to take credit for it, but for Christ's sake....

It is not that I'm a heartless asshole Solomon, or that I do not share your sentiment. I do.

But if we want a winning strategy, then Trump (first) and GOP (second) must fail. Say what you want about McConnell, but he is superb at political strategy -- and this is his.

I'm going to use words of someone unexpected to support this strategy. Trump writes in The Art of the Deal:

"You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."

If Trump fails to deliver, the marginal voters that elected him will vote against him in 2020 (and against GOP in 2018).

[Sylar]

I measure a candidacy in two broad categories; the prosperity of the nation and the security of the nation. Issues like same sex marriage and gender neutral bathrooms are of little importance to me.

Fair enough, and those two issues aren't what I'd prioritize either, in my effort to decide who to vote for.

But you see, I gave example of health care legislation, which is a major domestic policy. If it's of "little to no importance" to you as well, that's fine, though I would be surprised to learn so.

Even on economy and national security, Obama and Trump disagree so the contradiction remains.

[fencerider]

62% of American hospitals operate as non-profits....

Insurance companies operate at a lower margin than hospitals. According to some sources as low as 3.3%....

US pharmaceutical companies averaged a 23.5% margin last year...

Pappy really??? Apparently you never heard about a non-profit organization as one of the biggest ways to increase your bottom line. Come on now. The CEOs of non-profits are taking home as many billions of dollars as CEOs of for-profit business.

The 23% margin is figured out after the executive board members take their cut.

Medical insurance may be a really low margin because that was what the ACA was all about.


single payer will not work as long as the hospitals and big Pharma set the prices. Its easier said than done when everybody in Congress has been brown-nosin wall st for the last 40 years.

80/20 rule for insurance
80/20 rule for hospitals (80 for dr, nurse, and certified techs / 20 for profit and admin)
price control for pharmacy (say max charge 250% of production cost)
price control for medical school
price control for medical supply companies
easier path for foreign drs to certify in US
anti-trust lawsuite to break up AMA
.... and we should join the rest of the civilized world in sending people to prison who make a profit off healthcare (i.e. owners of hospitals, insurance, biotech)

Needless to say wall st has their hands so far up Congress they will never do it. Most likely there wont be any affordable health care for the US without a major change of attitude. I wonder what would happen if members of Congress were denied any kind of health insurance until they fix the system; whine like a bunch of babies?