Author Topic: News on rationality  (Read 255 times)

Offline Baruch (OP)

News on rationality
« on: February 27, 2017, 06:18:33 AM »
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Re: News on rationality
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2017, 12:40:21 PM »
does this explain how a candidate in Montana won an election a day after attacking a reporter??? (probably a deciding number of mail in votes had already been made) or maybe you are talking about the divide between D and R?

I would love for somebody to explain how winning the argument fits in with the creation story of the Bible...
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 12:51:52 PM »
does this explain how a candidate in Montana won an election a day after attacking a reporter??? (probably a deciding number of mail in votes had already been made) or maybe you are talking about the divide between D and R?

I would love for somebody to explain how winning the argument fits in with the creation story of the Bible...

Well, you asked.  On the Montana fracas ... Montana is different, just as Wyoming (Cheney) and Texas are (Bush).  And yes, I was talking generically, about ideology ... not about specific elections or candidates.  Remember, in the US, more than once, a deceased candidate has won an election.

On the creation story of the Bible ... you won't win any arguments with believers ... but you knew that already.  I believe it is a Jewish fiction, with interesting revelations about human beings (not about G-d).  Generally adherence to old religions is partly driven by alienation from modern society in general.  After 6 decades of modernism BS .. I can relate to that as well.  Alienation also drives Progressives into mythic science fiction, like Star Wars and the free lunch.  Some of us hide in the past (calling Mr Atos) and some of us hide in the future (Loopers).
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Re: News on rationality
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 11:48:48 PM »
but god created you to win the argument

Unfortunately is wasn't a deceased candidate that won the election in Nov.... or maybe he's just brain dead the body is still movin.

don't live in the past cause too many bad memories. don't live in Star Wars cause it's too far in the future to matter
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2017, 06:14:27 AM »
but god created you to win the argument

Unfortunately is wasn't a deceased candidate that won the election in Nov.... or maybe he's just brain dead the body is still movin.

don't live in the past cause too many bad memories. don't live in Star Wars cause it's too far in the future to matter

Well I can understand bad memories.  But I have good memories too.  And that winning candidate in Montana, isn't the only American zombie ... there are a lot of them out there.
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Offline SGOS

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2017, 09:26:11 AM »
From the article:

Quote
Among the many, many issues our forebears didn’t worry about were the deterrent effects of capital punishment and the ideal attributes of a firefighter. Nor did they have to contend with fabricated studies, or fake news, or Twitter. It’s no wonder, then, that today reason often seems to fail us. As Mercier and Sperber write, “This is one of many cases in which the environment changed too quickly for natural selection to catch up.”
Humans have advanced cerebral abilities, but being advanced doesn't mean that advanced cerebral abilities have fewer flaws than say a dog's brain.  It only means that a human brain can to something a dog's brain can't, but that giant leap forward in evolution is like the first car put out by Henry Ford.  Man has been on the Earth for such a short time by evolutionary time standards that the product hasn't had enough time to have its glaring deficiencies removed by the evolutionary process.  We all have defective brains.  I don't mean that as a joke.  I'm quite serious.

We make do with defective brains, because there aren't any better ones out there.  Quite likely, there never will be, because the path of evolution can't be predicted.  Just because a better reasoning ability would be a survival advantage doesn't mean evolution will provide it.  It's even possible that a better reasoning ability might be a disaster for our species in the end.


Offline aitm

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2017, 05:40:27 PM »
From the article:
Humans have advanced cerebral abilities,

 I have a phone that is quite literally a miniature computer....I will never have the knowledge to use it to capacity as it's technology for the most part is too young for me to keep up with. This is very much like cerebral abilities....we have access but limited direction as how to use it. It is quite possible that the "mentally impaired" have significant advantages over "us" but the ability to use that has not been discovered by those who are not mentally impaired. It is quite possible that a mentally impaired person, or many have found this but was restricted from further discovery by those who thought they knew better.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2017, 05:44:28 PM »
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

Well written article, relevant to posters here.
Indeed. It describes some of them to a T.  :whistle:
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Offline aitm

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2017, 05:53:55 PM »
We are arrogant creatures. We become emotionally attached to our opinions because we are arrogant. When we are proven wrong it is a great deal of emotional distress. Religious people...hell any people of a shared commonality find that the benefit of the communal thought is self serving arrogance. I cannot be wrong because so many people agree with me. Religious people in particular become very emotionally tied to their beliefs, they are very vested into it and most would be devastated to find out they are wrong, so they simply avoid that argument, ignore any evidence that suggests they may be wrong and charge full steam ahead despite the obvious...refer to Drew.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Hakurei Reimu

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2017, 09:40:09 PM »
Being wedded to one's ideas sounds a lot like being wedded to one's pets. It's probably about as good an idea. :wink:
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2017, 07:25:01 AM »
Being wedded to one's ideas sounds a lot like being wedded to one's pets. It's probably about as good an idea. :wink:

My cat wife is offended!
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Offline Cavebear

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 08:05:16 AM »
We are arrogant creatures. We become emotionally attached to our opinions because we are arrogant. When we are proven wrong it is a great deal of emotional distress. Religious people...hell any people of a shared commonality find that the benefit of the communal thought is self serving arrogance. I cannot be wrong because so many people agree with me. Religious people in particular become very emotionally tied to their beliefs, they are very vested into it and most would be devastated to find out they are wrong, so they simply avoid that argument, ignore any evidence that suggests they may be wrong and charge full steam ahead despite the obvious...refer to Drew.
As Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame) wrote, information today comes at us like a firehose into a teacup.  As late as 1750 (give or take a few) it was possible for an educated person to actually know all scientific information.  That went out the window long ago.  All we can do is stay basically scientifically literate enough to get the gist of actual science papers in a few subjects at best. 

I've noticed a change just in my lifetime.  In the 70s I could hold enough stuff on various subjects to discuss almost anything with anyone.  I discussed nitroglycerin in a waiting room with an expert.  He was surprised I wasn't part of the meeting.  I discussed early North American migration at a dinner table for an hour only to find out he was the Chair of Anthro at a University.  He thought I had a PhD.

I couldn't possibly do that today.  It's not that I know less (I know more in a few subjects).  It's that the details have gone far beyond anyone's ability to store internally.  Every time I read about fossils, there are dinosaurs I have never heard of, I can barely follow genetics at all, and even modern geology is far beyond me.

My teacup is overwhelmed...  I nearly live with Wikipedia open all the time.

Firesign Theatre once said "everything you know is wrong".  Well, not quite, F still equals MA, but you know what I mean, I hope.  No one can keep up with the info flow anymore.

I was born knowing nothing, then I knew some things, and I'll die relatively ignorant.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: News on rationality
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 08:58:49 AM »
Hats off!  You are a well read Cavebear ... and you retain some of it.  Most people don't get that far (eaten by cave bears first?).
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