Author Topic: Why facts don't matter  (Read 996 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 06:07:44 AM »
Facts don't matter to people who don't think factually.  But they matter to we who do think rationally.  I don't give a rat's ass about non-factual people (except fighting them) , but when people say facts don't matter, I can really only laugh at them and their imaginings of the world.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 07:13:46 AM »
Facts don't matter to people who don't think factually.  But they matter to we who do think rationally.  I don't give a rat's ass about non-factual people (except fighting them) , but when people say facts don't matter, I can really only laugh at them and their imaginings of the world.

What the Bible says, on chapter X, verse Y ... is a fact.  However what that means to a person will vary.  It is the interpretation of reality that is tricky, not the facts themselves.  Trump was elected President, that is a fact.  Yet people are still in denial.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 08:36:17 AM »
What the Bible says, on chapter X, verse Y ... is a fact.  However what that means to a person will vary.  It is the interpretation of reality that is tricky, not the facts themselves.  Trump was elected President, that is a fact.  Yet people are still in denial.

LOL! What the bible says is what the bible says.  That is factual in the context of what the bible says (never minding that the various trnslations aren't even close to the original writings (such as they were centuries after). 

If I write "The knight is climbing the poker", that statement is true is the sense I wrote it.  Its the content of the bible and all theist texts that make no sense other than an agreement that what is written is in there.  That makes little sense, otherwise.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 05:24:04 PM »
What the Bible says, on chapter X, verse Y ... is a fact.  However what that means to a person will vary.  It is the interpretation of reality that is tricky, not the facts themselves.

Yeah, both the Copenhagen and the Many-worlds interpretations of QM are based on the same facts, but are very different worldviews.
God Not Found
"I'd watch a Catholic more closely than an atheist if booze was involved. An atheist doesn't have to wonder if it's possible to get drunk on the Blood of Jesus."
Blackleaf

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 06:53:53 PM »
Yeah, both the Copenhagen and the Many-worlds interpretations of QM are based on the same facts, but are very different worldviews.

Since I don't like snuff, I have never liked the Copenhagen interpretation ;-)  The Many-worlds interpretation is a complete denial of the scientific method.  It comes from taking the math too literally, a lot like stupid Bible fanatics.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 05:39:24 AM »
Since I don't like snuff, I have never liked the Copenhagen interpretation ;-)  The Many-worlds interpretation is a complete denial of the scientific method.  It comes from taking the math too literally, a lot like stupid Bible fanatics.

You say that you don't like the Copenhagen interpretation of physics because you don't like snuff and "Copenhagen" is a brand of snuff???

Is there no end of your inanity?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2017, 07:27:41 AM »
I find reality funny, not worrisome.  Laugh or cry .. I choose to laugh.  "we are all going to die" ... but I say this with a laugh, not a cry.  Life is a tragic comedy.

Of course not everyone will get my jokes.  If you don't get it, them it isn't for you.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 07:34:53 AM »
I find reality funny, not worrisome.  Laugh or cry .. I choose to laugh.  "we are all going to die" ... but I say this with a laugh, not a cry.  Life is a tragic comedy.

Of course not everyone will get my jokes.  If you don't get it, them it isn't for you.

I get it as a joke. The problem is that you keep pushing this silliness as a rational argument DARING us to see it as a joke.

And the problem is that we are TRYING to have rational discussions here and you are just becoming the joke yourself.

I think you have it in you to make good arguments, but just won't. 

If all you want to do is increase your post count, please just do it in some of the silly threads.  If you want to be serious, then please be serious.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2017, 08:22:02 AM »
I am serious here from time to time.  And I hear .. crickets.  This is a silly website (no disrespect intended to anyone).  If I were serious, about controversial things, the level of insult and invective would be much higher, and I don't want to contribute to that.

And no, people claim to be serious and rational ... but I call bull crap on that too, same as you.
שלום

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 12:38:36 PM »
Facts do not change minds due to cognitive dissonance. 

Facts often do not change minds due to compartmentalization.  It is subsequent cognitive dissonance that provides an opportunity to correct that dysfunction.

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2017, 10:20:24 PM »
@barusch
I'm glad you are generally not serious or malicious in your comments. Living life properly is important and if we're all going to die, better to die laughing then crying I suppose.  But while you call this a silly website some of us actually come here for honest, human perspective. It can be difficult to have these conversations face to face or with people we know for fear of repercussions. But sound off to yourself is an echo chamber. To hear honest feedback and criticism is a wonderful way to learn about yourself and your beliefs and hopefully become a better person or thinker out of it. I cannot claim to know others motives, only my own. If you look at my posts honestly ask for feeed back and comments.  Not for a echo chamber or vitriol but feedback to better understand how my thought processes can improve. To laugh at that, to minimize our journeys and questions belittles those of us interested in honest thought and discourse.
Any that's my position.

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2017, 06:54:41 AM »
@barusch
I'm glad you are generally not serious or malicious in your comments. Living life properly is important and if we're all going to die, better to die laughing then crying I suppose.  But while you call this a silly website some of us actually come here for honest, human perspective. It can be difficult to have these conversations face to face or with people we know for fear of repercussions. But sound off to yourself is an echo chamber. To hear honest feedback and criticism is a wonderful way to learn about yourself and your beliefs and hopefully become a better person or thinker out of it. I cannot claim to know others motives, only my own. If you look at my posts honestly ask for feeed back and comments.  Not for a echo chamber or vitriol but feedback to better understand how my thought processes can improve. To laugh at that, to minimize our journeys and questions belittles those of us interested in honest thought and discourse.
Any that's my position.

I recognize that for some people, this is a safe place.  I am honest and very human.  All my posts are sincere .. even if its my position, a repeat of someone else's position, or I am being ... provocative to the ape men.  And yes, this is an echo chamber, for the "bohemians" ... but I are one, in more than one way.  I enjoy the therapy I get here, and some of the posts of others are either thoughtful or funny ... but even Bob Hope doesn't score on every joke.  It is the general position here that humans are mere apes.  I consider us to be apes plus .. but then I am a theist.  Sorry if your feelings were hurt.  But the first rule of "fight club" is to not talk about "fight club".  Your heart to heart is greatly appreciated.  Most posts by most people never achieve an actual human connection, just shadow boxing.  When people talk of themselves, not their positions ... I do pay careful attention, but I don't comment on that .. I empathize.  I know the pain of life.
שלום

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 11:04:56 PM »
@b
Thanks. I appreciate that comment and feedback.
. As an atheist I still believe we are apes plus. The plus is the emergant properties of cognition from the pattern seeking and learning brain that has evolved to our species. But it still something unique and special.
Regardless having actual human responses with empathy is unfortunately a disappearing trait in our reality entertainment world so your personal comments were very much appreciated.

Regarding the topics at hand, cognitivee dissidence seems to be a hard wired trait of our brains for whatever reason and it was interesting to see a study that starkly demonstrates it.
Thanks.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2017, 12:40:19 AM »
Facts do not change minds due to cognitive dissonance.

I was just reading about that.  But if some people are just impervious to facts, what can you do.  I hate appealing to emotions.

It used to be that old people were simply imperious to facts and you had to just wait for them to die, but it seems now that age does not matter and facts just aren't important.  Unsupported claims and tweets count as much as serious research
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2017, 07:53:08 AM »
...Regarding the topics at hand, cognitivee dissidence seems to be a hard wired trait of our brains...
Dissonance.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com