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Why facts don't matter

Started by Awakepuddle, February 26, 2017, 10:37:32 PM

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Awakepuddle

I know I get frustrated by theists and trumpists (I guess both trump and trumpets blow but anyway ) when confronted by data they will not process that into their conclusion
Today's New Yorker ( liberal elitist rag ) has a great article on some the neurobiology of why that is and the fact that unfortunately that is part of how all our braims work. Good read

Not sure if allowed to post external links , if not I'll delete it and recommend google New Yorker why facts don't matter otherwise

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

Does is this change your thoughts or frustrations at others who just don't get it?

Sorginak

Facts do not change minds due to cognitive dissonance. 

Awakepuddle

Agreed but why do we have that. Why is our brain wired that way. The article had some nice incites into the biology and psychology of the phenomenon
Cognitive dissidence is an effect not a cause so to speak. It is what happens but not why.
My point was we see this dissidence in our conversations and at least I get frautrated. It's interesting to me to realize this is not a fault in the person. It a fault in our brains and that can ease the frustration.  Why our brains works like it does is interesting and fundamentally dictates the society and world we live in.

Baruch

I posted the same article in the psychology section ... but didn't mean to repeat you, sorry.  Now that I did that mistake, I am not willing to take it back, no matter what arguments you make ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Awakepuddle

#4
I already think your a copy cat and time stamps won't change my mind ;-)

trdsf

I would say facts matter.  What also matters is that schools don't teach the methods of open inquiry, they just pile on facts so you can get past that year's exam.  So there's no baseline appreciation of facts, or ability to process them.  It's something you need to pick up on your own.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Baruch

Quote from: trdsf on February 27, 2017, 12:51:13 PM
I would say facts matter.  What also matters is that schools don't teach the methods of open inquiry, they just pile on facts so you can get past that year's exam.  So there's no baseline appreciation of facts, or ability to process them.  It's something you need to pick up on your own.

Ultimately everyone is self taught, but inhibited by parents and teachers.  This is so the children don't eat the adults alive.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

Facts don't matter to people who shouldn't matter.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Sal1981

I skimmed through that article.

Once again, it seems like cultural evolution is far ahead of biological evolution.

GrinningYMIR

Facts matter. Just ask Arcturus Mengsk.
On the other hand sometimes someone with the most power, money, or influence can use the facts or even blatantly lie about them and people believe. Again ask Arcturus Mengsk.

How do you think religions have been so big? True believers are manipulated by the powers that be. Even if some people are truly benevolent religious types and there are some that are. Don't get me wrong. They are diluted by facts that have been twisted to prove something that never happened.

Means to and end. But what is the end?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"<br /><br />Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Baruch

Quote from: Sal1981 on February 28, 2017, 08:20:16 AM
I skimmed through that article.

Once again, it seems like cultural evolution is far ahead of biological evolution.

Yes, Elon Musk will Borg us all, even before the Federation is created.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: GrinningYMIR on February 28, 2017, 09:22:05 AM
Facts matter. Just ask Arcturus Mengsk.
On the other hand sometimes someone with the most power, money, or influence can use the facts or even blatantly lie about them and people believe. Again ask Arcturus Mengsk.

How do you think religions have been so big? True believers are manipulated by the powers that be. Even if some people are truly benevolent religious types and there are some that are. Don't get me wrong. They are diluted by facts that have been twisted to prove something that never happened.

Means to and end. But what is the end?

Pink ponies says you ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

fencerider

Thom Hartman calls it the plutocrats, the suckers, and the shills. Its the job of the right wing shills (like pastors) to get the suckers to believe that what the plutocrats want is in their best interests.... Right now Trump is the biggest shill of them all. He said "cut taxes". He said "increase military spending". You ever notice that they never say both those things in the same sentence. Maybe the dumb people would figure out there is a problem if they ever say them both together.

They say that after studyin the brains of democrats and republicans with MRI and other such tools that there is a difference in brain structure that you can see. Most democrats have a certain kind of brain structure. Most republicans have a certain kind of brain structure that is not the same as democrats. I wish I could see those brain scans, but they dont show up very well on the radio.
"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.