Author Topic: Why facts don't matter  (Read 925 times)

Why facts don't matter
« on: February 26, 2017, 10:37:32 PM »
I know I get frustrated by theists and trumpists (I guess both trump and trumpets blow but anyway ) when confronted by data they will not process that into their conclusion
Today's New Yorker ( liberal elitist rag ) has a great article on some the neurobiology of why that is and the fact that unfortunately that is part of how all our braims work. Good read

Not sure if allowed to post external links , if not I'll delete it and recommend google New Yorker why facts don't matter otherwise

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

Does is this change your thoughts or frustrations at others who just don't get it?

Offline Sorginak

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 10:56:47 PM »
Facts do not change minds due to cognitive dissonance. 
Religion is primitive, inventive nonsense.

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 11:16:32 PM »
Agreed but why do we have that. Why is our brain wired that way. The article had some nice incites into the biology and psychology of the phenomenon
Cognitive dissidence is an effect not a cause so to speak. It is what happens but not why.
My point was we see this dissidence in our conversations and at least I get frautrated. It's interesting to me to realize this is not a fault in the person. It a fault in our brains and that can ease the frustration.  Why our brains works like it does is interesting and fundamentally dictates the society and world we live in.

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2017, 06:50:38 AM »
I posted the same article in the psychology section ... but didn't mean to repeat you, sorry.  Now that I did that mistake, I am not willing to take it back, no matter what arguments you make ;-)
שלום

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
I already think your a copy cat and time stamps won't change my mind ;-)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 03:27:57 PM by Awakepuddle »

Online trdsf

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 12:51:13 PM »
I would say facts matter.  What also matters is that schools don't teach the methods of open inquiry, they just pile on facts so you can get past that year's exam.  So there's no baseline appreciation of facts, or ability to process them.  It's something you need to pick up on your own.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 08:48:06 PM »
I would say facts matter.  What also matters is that schools don't teach the methods of open inquiry, they just pile on facts so you can get past that year's exam.  So there's no baseline appreciation of facts, or ability to process them.  It's something you need to pick up on your own.

Ultimately everyone is self taught, but inhibited by parents and teachers.  This is so the children don't eat the adults alive.
שלום

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2017, 07:31:12 AM »
Facts don't matter to people who shouldn't matter.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Sal1981

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 08:20:16 AM »
I skimmed through that article.

Once again, it seems like cultural evolution is far ahead of biological evolution.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline GrinningYMIR

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 09:22:05 AM »
Facts matter. Just ask Arcturus Mengsk.
On the other hand sometimes someone with the most power, money, or influence can use the facts or even blatantly lie about them and people believe. Again ask Arcturus Mengsk.

How do you think religions have been so big? True believers are manipulated by the powers that be. Even if some people are truly benevolent religious types and there are some that are. Don't get me wrong. They are diluted by facts that have been twisted to prove something that never happened.

Means to and end. But what is the end?
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"

Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 07:34:05 PM »
I skimmed through that article.

Once again, it seems like cultural evolution is far ahead of biological evolution.

Yes, Elon Musk will Borg us all, even before the Federation is created.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 07:35:02 PM »
Facts matter. Just ask Arcturus Mengsk.
On the other hand sometimes someone with the most power, money, or influence can use the facts or even blatantly lie about them and people believe. Again ask Arcturus Mengsk.

How do you think religions have been so big? True believers are manipulated by the powers that be. Even if some people are truly benevolent religious types and there are some that are. Don't get me wrong. They are diluted by facts that have been twisted to prove something that never happened.

Means to and end. But what is the end?

Pink ponies says you ;-)
שלום

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 12:23:49 AM »
Thom Hartman calls it the plutocrats, the suckers, and the shills. Its the job of the right wing shills (like pastors) to get the suckers to believe that what the plutocrats want is in their best interests.... Right now Trump is the biggest shill of them all. He said "cut taxes". He said "increase military spending". You ever notice that they never say both those things in the same sentence. Maybe the dumb people would figure out there is a problem if they ever say them both together.

They say that after studyin the brains of democrats and republicans with MRI and other such tools that there is a difference in brain structure that you can see. Most democrats have a certain kind of brain structure. Most republicans have a certain kind of brain structure that is not the same as democrats. I wish I could see those brain scans, but they dont show up very well on the radio.
god is never early, but he is never late either... so true, so true; but I would rather have him show up late than to not show up at all. When was the last time god showed up for anything??? uh never

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 05:59:56 PM »
God Not Found
"I am an expert of electricity. My father occupied the chair of applied electricity at the state prison."
W. C. Fields

Offline Baruch

Re: Why facts don't matter
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 07:58:15 PM »
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