Author Topic: Is there religion out there?  (Read 1742 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #105 on: March 15, 2017, 12:40:47 PM »
For starters, they'd be heavily dependent on Earth for whatever resources they can't produce themselves.  Second, war is on the decline, particularly between great powers.  That could change, but the smart money is the process continues for the foreseeable future.  And finally, there are international treaties in place to not militarize space.  Sure they could disregard the treaties and arm themselves, but they'd face harsh criticism, political pressure, and possibly also economic pressure to return to peaceable norms.
Well, no treaty ever survived any nation deciding it was no longer in their interests, whether by unilateral abrogation or by re-negotiation.  Certainly China's responsibilities under Article IX of the Outer Space Treaty (of which it is a signatory) didn't stop them from their 2007 anti-satellite missile test, and nearly 3,000 pieces of debris remain on orbit from that nearly ten years later, and that may have provided the political impetus for the American shootdown of the USA-193 satellite about a year later -- although in that case, most of the tracked debris de-orbited within a couple months, and all of it within a year and a half.

Interestingly, the various space treaties only bar WMD from space -- nuclear, chemical and biological weapons -- not conventional weapons, nor kinetic impactors/mass drivers.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"Confused? At a loss for what to do? Wow, sounds like you're human. Good luck." -- Welcome to Night Vale

Offline etienne

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #106 on: March 15, 2017, 02:42:16 PM »
If Shakespeare hadn't killed Yorick, before the play, Hamlet, had even begun, Yorick would have stolen all of Hamlet's best lines ;-)
Yep, they always have to do a hit on the Jester, lest the truth come out too soon.  Jester's are an oppressed class.
The Revolution does not fall like an apple when it is ripe:  you have to MAKE it fall...

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #107 on: March 15, 2017, 03:13:45 PM »
Well, no treaty ever survived any nation deciding it was no longer in their interests, whether by unilateral abrogation or by re-negotiation.  Certainly China's responsibilities under Article IX of the Outer Space Treaty (of which it is a signatory) didn't stop them from their 2007 anti-satellite missile test, and nearly 3,000 pieces of debris remain on orbit from that nearly ten years later, and that may have provided the political impetus for the American shootdown of the USA-193 satellite about a year later -- although in that case, most of the tracked debris de-orbited within a couple months, and all of it within a year and a half.

Interestingly, the various space treaties only bar WMD from space -- nuclear, chemical and biological weapons -- not conventional weapons, nor kinetic impactors/mass drivers.
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.

Offline trdsf

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #108 on: March 15, 2017, 04:27:34 PM »
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.
What continues to irk me is the deliberate blindness by both parties to the inspirational value of the space program.  Remember the outcry when they were going to decommission Hubble -- which actually saved it?  The interest in the Mars rovers, in the Pluto flyby?

I continue to be appalled that the moon landings are further in the past to my nieces (24 years) than World War II is to me (18 years).  We haven't really done anything but doddle about just barely outside the atmosphere for the last forty-five years.  How is that supposed to engage citizen interest?

I think the public will is probably far ahead of where the political will is.  And I don't buy the arguments about the expense -- NASA's budget for everything is less than one half of one percent of the Federal budget.  It's barely the cost of three new nuclear subs (and they're planning on buying 12), and unlike the subs, it generates ongoing return on investment.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"Confused? At a loss for what to do? Wow, sounds like you're human. Good luck." -- Welcome to Night Vale

Offline Baruch

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #109 on: March 15, 2017, 06:33:01 PM »
True enough.  Like a lot of political issues, I suppose it all depends on which proposition has more public support.  If the public wants to militarize space, it'll surely happen.  If militarizing space is opposed strongly enough, it won't happen.  We just have to ask ourselves what sort of future we want, come to a wise consensus, and then lobby to make it happen.

So if we change the tax code, to tax at 100% ... and it doesn't work out well, then the people are at fault ... not the 1% who actually control the government?  Sounds like victim blaming to me.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #110 on: March 16, 2017, 07:57:06 AM »
I'm not saying it's the unstoppable farce meets the immovable bore, but...

Hey, etienne and Baruch are just opposite sides of a coin I don't bother to toss.  I consider them 2D and I am 3D.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Re: Is there religion out there?
« Reply #111 on: March 16, 2017, 12:21:51 PM »
Hey, etienne and Baruch are just opposite sides of a coin I don't bother to toss.  I consider them 2D and I am 3D.

I will admit that your avatar is well drawn, call it 2.5 D.
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