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Thought experiment.

Started by abegeman, June 09, 2013, 03:11:08 PM

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Colanth

Quote from: "abegeman"Science is based around truths
Science is based around evidence, and if there was "once" nothing, there can be no evidence of it, so science isn't the field of inquiry best suited to search for the answer.  Which one is?  Probably one we haven't invented yet.  (Not philosophy - that's just mental masturbation.)

Quotescience is essentially how we prove things we know to be true  - usually we start with conjecture - then prove or disprove the hypothesis.
Close.  We start with evidence.  We form conjecture to explain it.  That evolves into hypothesis.  When we can explain all the evidence we currently have, and there's no evidence that contradicts our explanation, we have a theory.

The only branch of science that proves anything is math.

Remember, Newton's laws of motion were considered just about fact.  Then Einstein came along and showed them to be theory that fit a very limited set of conditions.  (They're not true even at the limited speed of human walking, although the error is so tiny as to not matter.)

As far as something coming from nothing, consider two thoughts:

1) 'Nothing' isn't an allowed state in this reality.  (I can't say "in this universe", because there was no "universe" if there was nothingness.)  Therefore, if there ever was nothingness, it immediately (insofar as there can be time in nothingness) became "somethingness".  Then the question becomes what is the matrix in which this nothingness and somethingness exist.

2) The universe, in one form or another, has "always" existed.  The one we see now is just the current phase.  (How can a man "come from" an infant?  Or an ovum?  Same thing, conceptually.)  How could this be?  Why should this be?  Totally different questions.  (As I always tell theists, "I don't know" isn't evidence of a god.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

SilentFutility

Welcome to the forum.

Quote from: "_Xenu_"I think you're comfronting the fundamental paradox of the universe. It will be millions of years before humans understand this, if ever.
Maybe, maybe not.
There were decades between people thinking that driving over 30mph in early automobiles would kill a man, and another man walking on the moon.

If there's one thing that cannot be predicted with any certainty, it is how our understanding of the what is around us will or won't progress in the future.

abegeman

Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "abegeman"Science is based around truths
Science is based around evidence, and if there was "once" nothing, there can be no evidence of it, so science isn't the field of inquiry best suited to search for the answer.  Which one is?  Probably one we haven't invented yet.  (Not philosophy - that's just mental masturbation.)

Quotescience is essentially how we prove things we know to be true  - usually we start with conjecture - then prove or disprove the hypothesis.
Close.  We start with evidence.  We form conjecture to explain it.  That evolves into hypothesis.  When we can explain all the evidence we currently have, and there's no evidence that contradicts our explanation, we have a theory.

The only branch of science that proves anything is math.

Remember, Newton's laws of motion were considered just about fact.  Then Einstein came along and showed them to be theory that fit a very limited set of conditions.  (They're not true even at the limited speed of human walking, although the error is so tiny as to not matter.)

As far as something coming from nothing, consider two thoughts:

1) 'Nothing' isn't an allowed state in this reality.  (I can't say "in this universe", because there was no "universe" if there was nothingness.)  Therefore, if there ever was nothingness, it immediately (insofar as there can be time in nothingness) became "somethingness".  Then the question becomes what is the matrix in which this nothingness and somethingness exist.

2) The universe, in one form or another, has "always" existed.  The one we see now is just the current phase.  (How can a man "come from" an infant?  Or an ovum?  Same thing, conceptually.)  How could this be?  Why should this be?  Totally different questions.  (As I always tell theists, "I don't know" isn't evidence of a god.)

Thanks for your response - enjoyed reading this one!

JI_Joe

I thought that the "big bang theory" was a miss representation of what really scientists were saying.  What they were saying is that there was this time where if we rewind every thing we see in our telescopes, every thing comes together in to what must be a singularity.  because singularities (black holes) destroy every thing that goes into them there is no way to tell what happened before that point in time.  and all of a sudden there was this right wing parroting with a smirk and a giggle this big bang theory thing.  discusss :popcorn:

Johan

Quote from: "abegeman"Science is based around truths - science is essentially how we prove things we know to be true
This is actually incorrect. Science does not and cannot tell us what is true. Science can only ever tell us what isn't true. We are always left to then assume the only possibility left is what is true. But we're still only assuming.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful


mykcob4

Quote from: "abegeman"Hi All,

I just signed up to this forum specifically to ask this question, apologies if this is the wrong section of the forum.

I was pondering a very very basic question recently and wanted to know if there were any plausible thought experiments or ideas on how 'something can come from nothing'. Wondering if anyone has any wiki links they could share with me?

I know this question is bound to attract many religious answers, so I would really appreciate it very much if any answers could perhaps negate religious views as i am already very well aware of this particular side of thinking.

Many Thanks
Heres a link!
http://michaelscomments.wordpress.com/2 ... e-because/

Colanth

Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.