Author Topic: I heard you guys were looking for a new Christian to help answer any questions  (Read 1212 times)

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

So you're saying that good and evil are defined by God, because nothing can have authority over God. But here's the problem with that. If "good" and "evil" are whatever God defines them as, then those words are meaningless.
actually not meaningless, just not open to interpretation or discussion. God set the standard where He wills it... kinda a perk in being the alpha and omega.

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Christians like to say that "God is good." But what does that mean?
That whatever God is... is the definition of Good.

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That God fits his own definition of goodness?
actually the opposite God is the alpha and omega therefore goodness fits the definition of him.
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Why should that be impressive?
Why should it be impressive at all? why cant that just be a fact?

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Also, if good and evil are defined by God, then God can tell you to do anything and it will automatically be good.
indeed.

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He can tell you to rape and kill and innocent woman, and because God commanded it, it would become good.
and it was once true.
minus the innocent part.. well no i take that back, they were probably virgins.

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Right now, you may be thinking the same thing many respond with, "But God is good, so he would never ask me to do something that is evil."
Bwahahaha! nuupe I've long ago turn and embraced that God at some point has his people break every single command. What does this mean? good and evil are not subject to man's morality. two different standards.

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And if so, you'd be proving my point. If God would never command you to murder because murder is evil, then morality transcends God
indeed. Unless you understand the definition of murder... Murder is the unsanctioned taking of life. If God sanctions the taking of life then it is no longer murder is it?

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It is not something that he can arbitrarily define.
look above... kinda did. well not arbitrarily erratically, but with the use of authority.

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He must adhere to morality himself if he is to be good and just.
that's the thing being the alpha and omega you don't. that is why I said good and evil has nothing to do with man's morality. and everything to do with what i deem righteousness or God's righteousness. God's righteousness is not a standard that God must follow but rather a standard that is set by the expressed will of God. Can God tell you to rape and murder He has. how is this ok, and not ok if I were to do it myself/on my own? consequences God knows and set them. If God sanctioned you to kill little Adoph at 7 would you do it if God told you the world would be a far greater place? and He listed off 100 different things that would make the world better would you kill little Adolph? would it then be murder if God sanctioned it? what if it saved 50 million people by killing this one kid?

Ok, what if God told you to rape some woman, the reason being she wants nothing to do wth you, but your off spring provides the world with a savior/hero or it literally saves a whole race of people without changing their whole genetic profile. Kinda how pandas are inseminated when they won't procreate. again, God knows the consenquences of your actions and how they will butter fly effect the time line in accordance to his ultimate will.

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If God can make something good just by saying it's good, then when you say that God is "good," all you're really saying is that he's consistent with himself.
wow you think on a very micro level, almost like on a 2D level when God is using Good/Evil to develop a 4D world. Your little morality play doesn't even work in your own pop culture. God kill say 100 kids for making fun of one of his guys hair cut, and pop culture has killed 1/2 a billion babies simply because the mother chose not to have them for a million trival and maybe 2 good reason. Say it is never ok to rape a woman but the culture breeds little girls to be sexual objects. and this all on your 2D level meaning with no ide what all of this does to our future.

God does it know exactly what will be effected and He is wrong... where is the logic in that?
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And if you read the Bible, you will find that God does frequently change his definitions of right and wrong. At one point, he'll declare that working on the Sabbath Day is evil, and that those who do so should be stoned to death. Then later, God says that it is fine to work on the Sabbath Day when it is done out of necessity. So even to say that God is consistent is giving him too much credit.
Actually no.. The working on the sabbath is evil was a Pharisaical interpretation of the law, what Christ said and did was with in the actual law of God. meaning the pharasees added to the law God gave to tighten what couldn't be done. God never decreed this religious expansion.

My example is far superior t this, in that God has required the breaking of all of his commandments at one point or another.
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I find it it funny how Christians often claim that morality cannot exist without God.
The mean righteousness, as morality is a joke man is playing on himself. in that man's mrality is the system of good and evil that incorperates the sin man is willing to over look. while Righteousness is God's standard no matter what that is.

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They'll say that without God, atheists cannot say murder is evil, because atheists do not believe in objective morality. Yet the Bible is full of examples of God ordering people to do things that modern society sees as evil, including the murder of innocent men, women, and children, making lifetime slaves out of their "enemies" without provocation, and more.
So me the murder of anyone innocent.

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Morality should not be based on some "moral absolutes." Each situation should be assessed individually. Even Jesus said this, as pointed out earlier:

"There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the LORD." (Leviticus 23:3; also included in the Ten Commandments)

This is a moral absolute. One which Jesus said may be broken, when the circumstances provided a need:

"He said to them, 'If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?'" (Matthew 12:11)

So even according to the Bible, the idea of moral absolutes, as defined by God, is stupid.
what? where ? i have no idea what this is about.. it seems like to me you are trying to stand on both sides of the street.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Baruch

"That whatever God is... is the definition of Good."

Tell that to Qoholeth or to Job ;-)  Now there is real scripture ... that and the Epistle of James!

Excuse me, I need to go study Aramaic while I eat supper, then get ready for Shabbat service tonight.  Hope you have a great weekend too.
שלום

As I point out in my sig, 1thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is good. This does not mean just to question the questionable but also question the foundational.

If you seek the truth I am just but another avenue to look down for it. All I ask is you give me the time to ask an honest question and see if I can't give you an answer that changes something. If you do not seek the truth there is nothing I can say that will be good enough.

Those who rarely think for themselves tend to have to quote others to do their thinking and speaking for them.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 06:31:42 PM by Sylar »

Online Mr.Obvious

Those who rarely think for themselves tend to have to quote others to do their thinking and speaking for them.

Yeah, drich! What he said!
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Ro3bert

First of all where did this god you talk about/quote/refer to come from? And don't bother with telling me he/it/she/they just are/were. I will reject any reference or any suggestion that entity exists outside our ken. Anything that may have created the universe must have some sort of per-existance. And you have no idea from where.

Now prove the god you talk about actually exists. As nearly as I can tell you believe in some sort of god because the bible tells you he/she/it/they exist. But that confuses me since we are to believe in god because the bible tells us so and we know that he (for short) is/was the ultimate author of said bible, the perfect circular argument.

I am a little more than skeptical of that argument.

I am going to make a categorical statement here: MAN MADE GOD IN MANS IMAGE not the other way around.

Quoting the bible or trying to interpret it to prove/explain your thesis will only fall upon deaf ears (or blind eyes as it were). If you cannot show empirical evidence of/for the existence of this god you are trying to get us to believe in then don't even respond to this post, well, except for your understanding of where this god came from.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 05:58:56 PM by Ro3bert »

Offline Hakurei Reimu

I wonder where Drich heard we were looking for new Christians to help answer any questions. I don't remember placing that ad! atim? Wolfie? Anyone?
Warning: Don't Tease The Miko!
(she bites!)
Spinny Miko Avatar shamelessly ripped off from Iosys' Neko Miko Reimu

I wonder where Drich heard we were looking for new Christians to help answer any questions. I don't remember placing that ad! atim? Wolfie? Anyone?
I've wondered the same.  He looks to me he is simply earning some brownie points from his fellow travelers.  I don't know why he thinks his 'style'  will convert any atheist.  Or hell, even most theists would look at him, shake their heads, and leave.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

I wonder where Drich heard we were looking for new Christians to help answer any questions. I don't remember placing that ad! atim? Wolfie? Anyone?
1.  Party crashers usually believe their presence has some sort of justification.
2.  He believes his idiosyncratic beliefs make him interesting and unique.
3.  The last party he crashed, he thought he could just take off his pants and be a hit, but that didn't work.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 07:16:58 AM by SGOS »

Online Mr.Obvious

I wonder where Drich heard we were looking for new Christians to help answer any questions. I don't remember placing that ad! atim? Wolfie? Anyone?

I told you guys to make sure randy's dungeon is locked.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline SGOS

I told you guys to make sure randy's dungeon is locked.
They sure are mirror images, but their particular style and reasoning is just Orthodox Christian.  I think Randy was a better speller.

Offline Cavebear

I'm pretty sure I never asked for any theist to help me understand anything.  In fact, if one DID explain anything I hadn't considered already, I would be somewhat sure I would disagree.  Its not that I don't like new ideas but theists (almost by definition) don't have any. 

Belief systems are mostly rooted in the past, trying to explain (inaccurately) how nomadic peoples adjusted to farming civilizations.  That they still exist in developed industrial/technological societies is simply astonishing to me.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead