Author Topic: Religion and the APA  (Read 2319 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2017, 01:33:48 PM »
Smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, are also coping mechanisms that are worldly widespread.  Yet, we recognize the potential dangers of both, especially in relation to the connection of alcoholism to alcohol and cancer to smoking.

Physical ailments ... that can be quantified, are open to science.  I you can't measure it, if it is qualitative (such as tendency to be addicted) then it isn't science.  Some genetic research that may tie to tendency to be addicted, might be science, or it is racism against Native Americans and Irish Americans ;-)
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Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2017, 01:35:02 PM »
Religion isn't only a psychological experience. It's also a sociological phenomenon.
Which is The main reason Why I personally wouldn't lump it in with psychological disorders, delusions and coping mechanisms. At least not automatically.

All personality is ... is neuroses.  All society is ... is sociopathy.  Don't be such an optimist!
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Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2017, 01:36:11 PM »
I had a psychology professor mention, but only in passing (it wasn't a rant), that psychology tries to be a science, and indeed observations in formal texts were always supported by some study, sometimes even from rat behavior.  So there is an attempt to make it science, and it is, but not to the extent of physics.  The prof's opinion was that it would have been more productive to approach psychology from a philosophical perspective, rather than a scientific one.

Although, the area of philosophy and ideology are risky areas in which to seek for truth.  Perhaps the human mind and all of its idiosyncrasies simply doesn't gravitate to truth.  Who knows?

But in fact, I could list renowned practitioners in the field who flowered back in the days when I was studying this stuff, and they all built their methodologies on philosophical underpinnings.  However, they didn't reject science, and there was a thread of continuity that ran through all their methods.  Not that the shamans and faith healers didn't try to invade the field, but they were never taken seriously.

Philosophy can be useful, but it takes prudence and care, perhaps some scientific like constraints, less we end up putting our mental health in the hands of Deepak Chopra.

Freud was big, because he was the first psychotherapist who was also an MD.  Of course back then, an MD was also pseudoscience.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2017, 01:37:59 PM »
Psychological research is done using the scientific method. It may not have started out as science as much of what sigman freud said turns out to be false but today it is very much a science. Just as serious as physics or any other branch of science. Any one claiming it is not is ignorant as to what goes on in the field. It is the study of human behavior. If they have a discrepancy with it they can read peer reviewed journals and do their own experiments proving it's not accurate. 

But to claim it isn't science is some one's ignorance. Just like creationists.

Everything is chemistry - the chemists
Everything is physics - the physicists
Everything is number - the mathematicians, and other ancient versions of new age woo.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2017, 03:05:29 PM »


I'm just posting this for people who are interested in why I bring this up.

I enjoyed this talk, like immensely enjoyed this talk.

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »
As someone with an education in the subject, I can offer a little insight here. Psychology, just like other sciences, has always been at odds with the religious right. And yes, it is a science. We use the scientific method to gather data. However, it's often referred to as a "soft science" due to the lack of certainty when it comes to interpretation of the results of research, coupled with the fact that humans are incredibly complex.

The religious right often don't believe in mental disease, ignoring experts on the subject. They think that depression can be cured with prayer or just realizing how good they've got it. They don't believe in alcoholism as a disease, and think that it's just a problem of behavior. They are ignorant or dismissive of the nature vs nurture debate, instead perpetuating the myth of free will, and using their belief as an excuse to condemn people who make bad choices. Although some churches are finally coming around, the church has traditionally used pastoral care as a substitute for professional psychological help.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2017, 03:17:37 PM »
PS - I am not saying that atheists are more crazy than theists.  And the misfit label is merely statistical, not prejudicial.
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Offline Sorginak

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2017, 05:42:55 PM »


The religious right often don't believe in mental disease, ignoring experts on the subject. They think that depression can be cured with prayer or just realizing how good they've got it. They don't believe in alcoholism as a disease, and think that it's just a problem of behavior. They are ignorant or dismissive of the nature vs nurture debate, instead perpetuating the myth of free will, and using their belief as an excuse to condemn people who make bad choices. Although some churches are finally coming around, the church has traditionally used pastoral care as a substitute for professional psychological help.

Yet, due to obvious misinterpretation of biblical scripture, they think homosexuality is a disease despite psychology having recanted their earlier, more primitive stance that it was. 

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2017, 07:27:55 PM »
Yet, due to obvious misinterpretation of biblical scripture, they think homosexuality is a disease despite psychology having recanted their earlier, more primitive stance that it was.

That's another way they ignore what we have to say, yes. Faith > research.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2017, 10:52:08 PM »
Yet, due to obvious misinterpretation of biblical scripture, they think homosexuality is a disease despite psychology having recanted their earlier, more primitive stance that it was.

Only with DSM V is it not a disease, it was still a disease in DSM IV.  That is a very recent and controversial change ... but then the APA approves of torture.
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Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2017, 11:59:11 PM »
Only with DSM V is it not a disease, it was still a disease in DSM IV.  That is a very recent and controversial change ... but then the APA approves of torture.

Homosexuality was inconsistent with the criteria for what constitutes a mental disease. Mental diseases typically cause harm to self or others, or some kind of dysfunction. The hardest thing about being gay is having to deal with people who are biased against gay people.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 01:22:56 AM »
I've been forced to have to deal with a few psychologist in my life and I have to say that I trust them generally about as much as I trust the goofy assed preacher down on the corner screaming the end is near.
A few years back I was hospitalized for a suicide attempt. I had to go see the shrink and he spent a whole of about 2 minutes asking how many kids I had, their ages and how many brothers and sisters I had.  That was it. In the meantime, because I had injected insecticide into my arm and it became horribly infected and I nearly had to have it amputated I was ordered to go to AA meetings at the hospital to cure my depression. They offered absolutely no medical attention regarding my arm so I told the shrink that if I wasn't immediately released from the locked ward I would sue him for every dime he would ever make for the rest of his natural born life.
I was released and the very next day I went to the ER and they had to do emergency surgery to save my arm.
The surgeon told me that if I had waited one more day he would have had no choice but to amputate.
I have ZERO trust in psycologists.. NONE whatsoever.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 02:40:46 AM »
Psychology is a soft science, meaning that we don't have mathematical bases to support it.  YET...  All other branches of science were once "soft" too.  At some point (with evidence growing daily), psychology will eventually become "hard science".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online Mr.Obvious

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2017, 02:49:08 AM »
Psychology is a soft science, meaning that we don't have mathematical bases to support it.  YET...  All other branches of science were once "soft" too.  At some point (with evidence growing daily), psychology will eventually become "hard science".

They told us that about sociology an psychology during my sociology-masters study.
I'm not convinced. But hey, maybe.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Religion and the APA
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2017, 02:53:50 AM »
They told us that about sociology an psychology during my sociology-masters study.
I'm not convinced. But hey, maybe.

So, what is your day job?  Are you a sociologist?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950