Author Topic: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?  (Read 1544 times)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 04:38:21 PM »
Perhaps .. dark energy and dark matter are extrapolations ... not experimental confirmations.  And it is still pretty mysterious, the expansion at all (from the Big Bang) since by odds, it should have collapsed into a black hole, very early.  Having extra energy (like explosion) actually increases the gravity, it works against you.
That's only a problem when dealing with a single universe. A metaverse of infinite universe would be geometrically self stabilizing.

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
I love the "because they are" ending.   I am reminded of a cartoon with a blackboard full of equations and there is a small statement "and then a miracle happens" , and another professor suggests they might need to work on that part.

All that I am suggesting, without proof, is that a new way of looking at the universe will emerge in the future that makes more logical sense and still satisfy physics.
Have you ever considered the quantization of an infinitely spacial "singularity" rather than an infinitesimally small one?

The moncentric "Big Bang" scenario reeks to high heaven of point perspective bias. And what the hell is up with that black nothing space always shone out side the "singularity"??? They tell me it dosen't exist then show it me....bunch of illogical chuckleheads.

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 05:01:09 PM »
I expect that "things" will snap back to reality one of these days.  We were all twisted up (literally) about earth-centric planetary epicycles until they finally made no possible sense and WOW, someone changed our perspective to heliocentric and things made sense again.  It is obvious now, but it wasn't then.  Until it was.

We are overdue for a change in perspective.

Someday (I hope soon, but you never know), dark matter and dark energy will make sense, spacetime will be resolved in a 3d Universe, and we will all say "oh well, of course, how obvious", etc.
If we are watching a balloon expand, most people would assume air pressure is increasing on the inside. The exact same relative motion of the balloon membrane can be achieved by lowering external pressure....

If all space time and matter were one before "inflation" (contraction)...the only valid place of beginning perspective is inside the singularity...and like Fantasia, it has no borders. Starting off in a surrounding nothing space is an error which affects all sebsequent transformations and perspectives.

Would you care for a nice cup of tea?

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 05:10:16 PM »
Reality tells me that time is constant and moving.  I like your thoughts!
As time is measured by stuff moving through space...stuff is orbiting, spiraling, and accumulating. Like a snowball rolling down a snowfield, the past is towards the center, the present is the current surface in the future is yet to accumulate. Time does not pass...it grows.  We experience this nature of time mentally as maturation of consciousness.  We accumulate information and make cross connections.  Our field of total awareness grows and we can project larger fields into the future. A child does not plan 10 years into the future, a 30-year-old does....or should, lol.

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2017, 05:26:08 PM »
I often feel much the same way about string theory.  I was only just starting to get my brain wrapped around QM, and boom, everything changed.  :)
Wait till you get a load of supra-string theory! It treats the strings as macro components of space time rather than micro. We are within one of six, the one that patterns for our specific type of atom. The others pattern for two heavier quark densities of matter and 3 anti-matter charge arrangements.

So the ratio of our matter type to the other hidden or "dark" types works out 1 to 5.

It takes the perspective that a total universe is "spectrumed" apart like a rainbow from light rather than an explosion of junk. Our type of matter is like the orange band....it does not appear independent of the other colors.

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2017, 12:39:58 AM »
If we are watching a balloon expand, most people would assume air pressure is increasing on the inside. The exact same relative motion of the balloon membrane can be achieved by lowering external pressure....

If all space time and matter were one before "inflation" (contraction)...the only valid place of beginning perspective is inside the singularity...and like Fantasia, it has no borders. Starting off in a surrounding nothing space is an error which affects all sebsequent transformations and perspectives.

Would you care for a nice cup of tea?

Bodhidharma of Physics?  Just don't overfill my cup please, I am already enlightened.

The interesting mind blowing of projective space cosmology is ... that the celestial sphere, is all one point, spread out over the interior of a ball.  But the exterior of the ball isn't a problem, if you accept that the mapping isn't faithful, that the inside projection and the outside projection are duplicates of each other (like a quadratic equation where both roots are equal to each other ... then you only need one, the other root is free).  In maths this is called a one-point compactification (there are more than one kind).  Literally (if we loose scale for a moment) we are dealing with a projective space where the celestial sphere is one-point-at-infinity with two degrees of spherical freedom ... aka a horosphere or closed plane at infinity.  In actual fact, it isn't an infinite distance/time away ... depending.  Unless of course are farthest time/distance measurements are wrong.  Very hard to make a yard stick that is billions of light years in size.

On an optical basis, the celestial sphere looks like an image that is completely out of focus.  The math for this is a completely washed out mapping (the flatness problem) which greatly increases the entropy.  Try a simple experiment with two magnifying glasses, and make a simple telescope where the image is completely out of focus.
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Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2017, 01:28:43 AM »
Bodhidharma of Physics?  Just don't overfill my cup please, I am already enlightened.

The interesting mind blowing of projective space cosmology is ... that the celestial sphere, is all one point, spread out over the interior of a ball.  But the exterior of the ball isn't a problem, if you accept that the mapping isn't faithful, that the inside projection and the outside projection are duplicates of each other (like a quadratic equation where both roots are equal to each other ... then you only need one, the other root is free).  In maths this is called a one-point compactification (there are more than one kind).  Literally (if we loose scale for a moment) we are dealing with a projective space where the celestial sphere is one-point-at-infinity with two degrees of spherical freedom ... aka a horosphere or closed plane at infinity.  In actual fact, it isn't an infinite distance/time away ... depending.  Unless of course are farthest time/distance measurements are wrong.  Very hard to make a yard stick that is billions of light years in size.

On an optical basis, the celestial sphere looks like an image that is completely out of focus.  The math for this is a completely washed out mapping (the flatness problem) which greatly increases the entropy.  Try a simple experiment with two magnifying glasses, and make a simple telescope where the image is completely out of focus.
Are you referring to the observable universe of light that has reached our point/planet in space since the ending of the opaque period of inflation?

As far as I have read the is no observable preferential distribution of poly-galactic fliments and super clusters at macro scale. No distribution relative to a central expansion point. But what we did find in the CMB is a hemispherical asymmetry, the background radiation of space has a hot side and a cold side relative to our position in space.

Consider a toroidal manifold for the shape of our section of the universe, spinning like an inner tube in a wheel. Our observable universe would be tiny sphere of space within the tube; there would be an incoming/compressed/hot side and an outgoing/stretched/cold region of space on either side of our observable bubble of universal phenomenon.

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2017, 07:31:08 AM »
You are speculating, as I am ... and thinking ;-)

Yes, the flatness problem is reflected in the smoothness of the 3.5K radiation.  The relative asymmetry is an interesting problem, but small in magnitude, supposedly due to galactic rotation.  The conventional way to solve the flatness problem is to invoke "early inflation" ... but I don't see that as necessary, if it simply part of the large scale "optical" structure of the universe.  A projective space analysis is hard on the head, but it is consistent with observations (if we idealize the initial singularity a bit).  The classical Celestial Sphere didn't take into account the passage of time as we look outward ... and assumed that the points not he interior of the sphere are all different points.  Projective geometry puts that on its head.
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Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2017, 01:36:03 PM »
Which is why I managed the telecommunications for 14,000 people and didn't manage physics at NASA.  But I still don't like an equation that can turn energy into matter, I don't understand WHY lightspeed SQUARED has anything to do with it, and I grudgingly accept that light can be particles and waves and the same time.   I accept that the universe can expand faster than lightspeed somehow (it what please don't ask), that there are quarks and massless objects, and dark matter and dark energy, etc

But please don't expect that it makes any sense to me.  ;)  Sometimes I feel like a Flatlander trying to understand 3 dimensions.  I'm getting too old for this.  I want to hang on to a rational 3D universe.  LOL!

Well, kinetic energy is defined as E=0.5*mv^2 (mass times velocity squared), and potential energy is E=mdg (mass, distance, acceleration due to gravity) leading to both of them being (mass*distance*distance)/(time*time).  So the ultimate amount of energy would also be the ultimate velocity.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2017, 03:34:52 AM »
I just looked this up.  I don't understand it very well, so I assume I wouldn't understand your explanation either.  I get the impression that the explanations are metaphysical and about as speculative as my own speculations; They are sort of thought provoking hooey.  I found this one response to the question interesting, if not all that informative.

I suspect that a century from now, we will look at spacetime as we looked at planetary epicycles in the past.  Good math, but not not reality.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline trdsf

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2017, 12:51:38 PM »
Wait till you get a load of supra-string theory! It treats the strings as macro components of space time rather than micro. We are within one of six, the one that patterns for our specific type of atom. The others pattern for two heavier quark densities of matter and 3 anti-matter charge arrangements.

So the ratio of our matter type to the other hidden or "dark" types works out 1 to 5.

It takes the perspective that a total universe is "spectrumed" apart like a rainbow from light rather than an explosion of junk. Our type of matter is like the orange band....it does not appear independent of the other colors.
This is why I leave the bleeding-edge research to the geniuses and just sort of hang on to what I do get until the new stuff filters down to a level my poor but interested brain can handle.

String theory, in broadest outline, I have -- the idea that everything is composed of even easier stuff than electrons and quarks, just different vibrations of one-dimensional strings making two-dimensional sheets as they move through spacetime.  I can wrap my brain around that, though I need a little duct tape to hold it in place.  Much beyond that, though, it gets fuzzier than the lettuce I forgot about in my fridge drawer.

In any case, string theory is too new for there to be much consensus on how it works, much less whether it's the path to unification.  It may prove be in the long run, or it may just be a mathematically useful way of treating things until a better theory comes along.  And it has nowhere near the confirmation of the theories of General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, and the Standard Model.  So I'm willing to sit back and let the whole string thing shake itself out until a clearer picture emerges.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2017, 06:02:08 AM »
This is why I leave the bleeding-edge research to the geniuses and just sort of hang on to what I do get until the new stuff filters down to a level my poor but interested brain can handle.

String theory, in broadest outline, I have -- the idea that everything is composed of even easier stuff than electrons and quarks, just different vibrations of one-dimensional strings making two-dimensional sheets as they move through spacetime.  I can wrap my brain around that, though I need a little duct tape to hold it in place.  Much beyond that, though, it gets fuzzier than the lettuce I forgot about in my fridge drawer.

In any case, string theory is too new for there to be much consensus on how it works, much less whether it's the path to unification.  It may prove be in the long run, or it may just be a mathematically useful way of treating things until a better theory comes along.  And it has nowhere near the confirmation of the theories of General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, and the Standard Model.  So I'm willing to sit back and let the whole string thing shake itself out until a clearer picture emerges.

There will be a new understanding that makes "reality" sensible again.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2017, 06:20:20 AM »
Try sticking your fingers up to a spinning table saw blade.. Your hand will move faster than light if you know what's good for you. That's why I want to someday invest in a Sawstop saw..
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Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2017, 07:04:57 AM »
There will be a new understanding that makes "reality" sensible again.

Popular science eventually catches up.  It must have been interesting in the past, watching the public move from "the world is flat" to "the world is round".
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Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2017, 07:06:16 AM »
Try sticking your fingers up to a spinning table saw blade.. Your hand will move faster than light if you know what's good for you. That's why I want to someday invest in a Sawstop saw..

That is how my godfather lost his thumb in HS.  Wood shop power saw.  Never push with your hands, use a stick.
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