Author Topic: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?  (Read 269 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 07:36:32 AM »
Misreading.  Explosion takes energy, but energy is mass.  We don't disagree.  You prophetic abilities fail.  I am not randomly typing.

Energy is not mass.  It can be converted to mass, but that is not the same.  It takes dividing by the speed of light squared and I defy anyone to explain the logic of that. 
When you come to a fork in the road - take it!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2017, 12:38:07 PM »
Energy is not mass.  It can be converted to mass, but that is not the same.  It takes dividing by the speed of light squared and I defy anyone to explain the logic of that.

Defiance accepted ;-).  Energy comes in several forms, mass being one of them.  The C^2 part is because of human chosen units.  If mass and energy are in the same units, then C=1 or C^@=1 aka E=M.  So in a way, all forms of energy are equal, because in principle they can be converted to each other (minus entrooy) ... but they are all dissimilar ... because they are.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 09:16:35 AM »
Defiance accepted ;-).  Energy comes in several forms, mass being one of them.  The C^2 part is because of human chosen units.  If mass and energy are in the same units, then C=1 or C^@=1 aka E=M.  So in a way, all forms of energy are equal, because in principle they can be converted to each other (minus entrooy) ... but they are all dissimilar ... because they are.

I love the "because they are" ending.   I am reminded of a cartoon with a blackboard full of equations and there is a small statement "and then a miracle happens" , and another professor suggests they might need to work on that part.

All that I am suggesting, without proof, is that a new way of looking at the universe will emerge in the future that makes more logical sense and still satisfy physics.
When you come to a fork in the road - take it!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 01:06:28 PM »
My school was so hard ... how hard was it? ... that the exercises at the end of the chapter did the same thing ... "then a miracle happens" and we are expected to fill in the gap ;-))
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Offline trdsf

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2017, 02:03:00 PM »
It takes dividing by the speed of light squared and I defy anyone to explain the logic of that.
Simple, mass is in kilograms, velocities are in meters per second, and units of energy are in joules, which are in units of kg*m2/s2, so multiplying the square of the speed of light by mass directly gives an energy measurement.

Using this, you can even backtrack and calculate how much mass was converted to energy in, for example, the Hiroshima bomb.  It released about 63 teraJoules of energy, which is 6.3x1013 kg*m2/s2.  The speed of light is approximately 3x108 m/s (which is close enough to 2.99792458x108 and much easier to multiply).  Squaring that gives 9x1016 m2/s2, by which we can divide the energy figure above so the m2/s2 will cancel and leave only kg.

And it leaves 0.0007 kg, or 0.7 grams of mass completely converted into energy.  That's all it takes to flatten a city.

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes, 8 November 1990

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 06:43:47 PM »
trdsf ... a 100 likes for one post, if I only could!  I wait and wait for people here to show more intelligence than people on Facebook ...
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2017, 04:43:43 AM »
Simple, mass is in kilograms, velocities are in meters per second, and units of energy are in joules, which are in units of kg*m2/s2, so multiplying the square of the speed of light by mass directly gives an energy measurement.

Using this, you can even backtrack and calculate how much mass was converted to energy in, for example, the Hiroshima bomb.  It released about 63 teraJoules of energy, which is 6.3x1013 kg*m2/s2.  The speed of light is approximately 3x108 m/s (which is close enough to 2.99792458x108 and much easier to multiply).  Squaring that gives 9x1016 m2/s2, by which we can divide the energy figure above so the m2/s2 will cancel and leave only kg.

And it leaves 0.0007 kg, or 0.7 grams of mass completely converted into energy.  That's all it takes to flatten a city.

And then energy is converted to mass by dividing it by light squared.  Love it, always have.  But why does that happen?
When you come to a fork in the road - take it!

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2017, 06:34:27 AM »
And then energy is converted to mass by dividing it by light squared.  Love it, always have.  But why does that happen?

Divide and conquer ;-)
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Offline trdsf

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #23 on: Today at 11:17:43 AM »
And then energy is converted to mass by dividing it by light squared.  Love it, always have.  But why does that happen?
Because... well, because it is proper to think of mass as frozen energy, in many ways, and of energy as liberated mass.  Which kind of breaks down to 'because it can', or at least 'because there is no physical law preventing it under those circumstances'.  And it goes both directions, which is why CERN is able to see massive short-lived particles like the Higgs by focusing enough energy in a minute space to allow one to form -- and why black holes leak Hawking radiation.  We just are more familiar with the matter-to-energy side since that's what powers nuclear reactors and the sun.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes, 8 November 1990

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Do you think anything can travel faster than a photon?
« Reply #24 on: Today at 01:00:39 PM »
If A=C*B ... then B=A/C provided that C is never zero.

Cavebear might not be a random typing bot, but an HP calculator he isn't either ;-)
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