Author Topic: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?  (Read 1776 times)

Offline Munch

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2017, 11:50:35 AM »
Gay people voted for trump. Many women voted for trump. Not everyone fits into the same box, and they arn't all stupid, they simply have different ideas and were brought up differently

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 12:24:20 PM »
Gay people voted for trump. Many women voted for trump. Not everyone fits into the same box, and they arn't all stupid, they simply have different ideas and were brought up differently
Misguided would perhaps be a more accurate word, though in all honestly, I am sorely tempted to call them stupid.

Mike Pence is famously opposed to gay marriage (his exact stance is shocking to say the least) and much of the Republicans swept to power in Trump's wake are some of the biggest opponents of gay rights out there.  But since the Supreme Court already made that call, it doesn't really matter, right?  Plus, Trump waved a rainbow flag.  Surely he's not going to do anything to hurt the LGBT community.

Well, as it turns out, he has a proposal on the table to weaken anti-discrimination laws protecting gays.  Imho, any gay people who worked to put us in this position have made a huge mistake.  They're not necessarily morons, but they definitely made a very serious error in judgement.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 12:30:27 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Baruch

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2017, 12:51:06 PM »
Religious freedom is only one value of many values.  There are other Republican values than creating a theocracy.  For example, gun ownership, redistribution of wealth to the top, cutting funding for education, or suppression of minorities seem to be part of the ideology.  An atheist may value some of those more than he worries about a theocracy.  Such values are ingrained in the right wing ideology.  Many exist more in perception than they do in reality.  For example, "the Republican Party is fiscally conservative."  But those values, real or perceived, carry weight.

Once again, the definition of atheist is one who doesn't believe in a god.  Beyond that, many of us, liberal or conservative, have other values that we cherish more than our atheism.  For me, environmental stewardship, national health care (although not specifically Obamacare), the wealthy sharing their proportion of the tax burden, and equal rights, all rank higher than my lack of religious beliefs.

Show me a Republican that demonstrates the he actually values these things, not just in his rhetoric, but in his actions, and I could vote for him.

"the Republican Party is fiscally conservative." ... if only!  I am talking about you, George W!  Both parties buy votes, but they vary on who they most want to service.
שלום

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2017, 04:05:32 PM »
The GOP dislike of atheists is not a newly found hatred:



We can't even be citizens!? How will they come for us, and when?

And to where will they deport us?


The 1st amendment to the Constitution says:

Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

It says nothing about executive orders, so can we assume that those can indeed respect (or dis-respect) an establishment of religion?

« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 04:55:17 PM by Unbeliever »
God Not Found
"FRAUD. The life of commerce, the soul of religion, the bait of courtship, and the basis of political power."
Ambrose Bierce

Offline Shiranu

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2017, 04:53:12 PM »
Quote
Also Hindsight.

Yes, let's talk hindsight.

A guy is doing exactly what he said he would do, which is absolutely horrible shit.

Wow, that plot twist though.

Quote
Gay people voted for trump. Many women voted for trump. Not everyone fits into the same box, and they arn't all stupid, they simply have different ideas and were brought up differently

Yeah, and when those ideas include bigotry, homophobia, heavy sexism and xenophobia (or you think those things are okay since at least it isn't business like usual), we like to say stupid to save them the embarrassment of calling them what they really are.


Quote
It comes down to sticking your hand in a box of scorpions, one box you can see the scorpions, the other you can't. Would you sooner see when the stringers coming, or leave it up to chance you won't get stung.

I must have missed that Hillary, "I have a dream... that one day we will ban the Muslims, hate the gays, sexually assault the womens and piss on our allies.", speech.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 04:54:49 PM by Shiranu »
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2017, 06:30:30 PM »
Yes, let's talk hindsight.

A guy is doing exactly what he said he would do, which is absolutely horrible shit.

Wow, that plot twist though.
I've heard the argument during the primaries that he was just pandering to his conservative base and his presidency would be fairly moderate and decent.  Exact words:  "There's nothing to worry about, trust me".

3 months later and that argument was proven spectacularly wrong.

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2017, 06:35:26 PM »
Yeah, hyuuuuugely, bigly wrong!
God Not Found
"FRAUD. The life of commerce, the soul of religion, the bait of courtship, and the basis of political power."
Ambrose Bierce

Offline Baruch

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 06:53:03 PM »
George H W was a Cold Warrior ... by atheist he means Communists, and by Communists he means ... dead.
שלום

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 12:26:19 PM »
Paint the comparison in such a way you like, but those who say "giant douch or turd sandwich" are far more accurate than those who say "box of roaches or box of scorpions."  Face it, Clinton was an awful candidate and is an awful person.  The only redeeming value to her was the party label attached to her.  Without that party label, there would have been nothing about her to support, or even like.
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Offline Shiranu

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 02:09:57 PM »
Paint the comparison in such a way you like, but those who say "giant douch or turd sandwich" are far more accurate than those who say "box of roaches or box of scorpions."  Face it, Clinton was an awful candidate and is an awful person.  The only redeeming value to her was the party label attached to her.  Without that party label, there would have been nothing about her to support, or even like.

I mean, the comparison certainly is close... if you don't care about nepotism, rampant sexism in his speech and behaviour, destroying of relationships with our allies, complete and utter cultural ignorance about basically every minority in the country, requiring a foreign PM to explain to him the rules of the Geneva Convention about refugees, insisting that the only "not fake" news is FOX, eroding further and further the separation of church and state and installing a theocratic Vice Prez., threatening to escalate conflicts with several world powers (and send troops into one of our closest allies), wanting the tax payer to build a wall that if anything will cause more illegal immigration problems than solve, wanting to destabilize one of the strongest military-economic unions in the world because they disagree with him, who ran on a campaign of fear, hatred and xenophobia, who made his Chief Strategist the excutive chair of one of the largest alt-right (see; self-confessed xenophobic & nationalistic) publications, who "All Lives Mattered" the fucking Holocaust, who installs yes-men around him rather than people who might have even the slightest inclination of disagreeing with him or not telling him how great he is, who skips his own intelligence meetings, who shows no regard for the LGBT community...

But yeah, no, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are "more or less" the same.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 02:16:46 PM by Shiranu »
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2017, 02:48:14 PM »
I mean, the comparison certainly is close... if you don't care about nepotism, rampant sexism in his speech and behaviour, destroying of relationships with our allies, complete and utter cultural ignorance about basically every minority in the country, requiring a foreign PM to explain to him the rules of the Geneva Convention about refugees, insisting that the only "not fake" news is FOX, eroding further and further the separation of church and state and installing a theocratic Vice Prez., threatening to escalate conflicts with several world powers (and send troops into one of our closest allies), wanting the tax payer to build a wall that if anything will cause more illegal immigration problems than solve, wanting to destabilize one of the strongest military-economic unions in the world because they disagree with him, who ran on a campaign of fear, hatred and xenophobia, who made his Chief Strategist the excutive chair of one of the largest alt-right (see; self-confessed xenophobic & nationalistic) publications, who "All Lives Mattered" the fucking Holocaust, who installs yes-men around him rather than people who might have even the slightest inclination of disagreeing with him or not telling him how great he is, who skips his own intelligence meetings, who shows no regard for the LGBT community...

But yeah, no, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are "more or less" the same.

Good job listing Trump's faults.  I won't say a word against any of that.  I'll only wonder if you are capable of also analyzing Clinton that way.

Probably not.
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Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2017, 02:51:21 PM »
Paint the comparison in such a way you like, but those who say "giant douch or turd sandwich" are far more accurate than those who say "box of roaches or box of scorpions."  Face it, Clinton was an awful candidate and is an awful person.  The only redeeming value to her was the party label attached to her.  Without that party label, there would have been nothing about her to support, or even like.
There was actually a lot of overlap between Sanders' and Clinton's positions.  Calling her an awful person doesn't change the fact that she had a better platform than all comers but Sanders or make up for the fact that the libertarians, as always, failed utterly at putting forth either a platform or candidate that the American public could get behind.


Offline Shiranu

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2017, 03:13:22 PM »
Good job listing Trump's faults.  I won't say a word against any of that.  I'll only wonder if you are capable of also analyzing Clinton that way.

Probably not.

I've already talked about how, "meh." I feel about her and why I dislike her, so I don't see any need to. But for all her flaws, she is simply not comparable to trump .
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2017, 03:32:49 PM »
I've already talked about how, "meh." I feel about her and why I dislike her, so I don't see any need to. But for all her flaws, she is simply not comparable to trump .

Exactly.  Your feelings for Trump are other then "meh".  Because of all her flaws, she simply is comparable to Trump.
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Null Zone Part Two

Offline Munch

Re: How can any atheist support Trump or the Republicans?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2017, 03:43:21 PM »
I've already talked about how, "meh." I feel about her and why I dislike her, so I don't see any need to. But for all her flaws, she is simply not comparable to trump .