There is no God PERIOD

[sdelsolray]

Yes I'm very skeptical of the naturedidit without plan or intent argument to be little more than wishful thinking.

You project well.

[Cavebear]

Life can exist where conditions permit it, and doesn't where conditions don't.  Where life CAN exist, there may be varying degrees of complexity.  Any life, or intelligent life, is not is not required by any conditions.  It may or may not happen.  That it exists here if somewhere between possible and good luck.

An identical planet around an identical star might not support life. Or it might have move advanced life ib the past, present, or future.

There just aren't any rules for that.

But one thing I have no doubt of, no deities are involved... 

[Unbeliever]

G-d doesn't clean up after himself, we do ;-)

Not for long, we won't. After we make a really big mess of the world there won't be anyone around to clean it up.

[Baruch]

Not for long, we won't. After we make a really big mess of the world there won't be anyone around to clean it up.

So per Spinoza's main concern, human ethics, what should humans do?  Watch the ants?  Aesop would definitely answer yes, and not watch the grasshoppers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX_qRwVXWYQ

[Cavebear]

Please explain how you know a deity isn't necessary? What naturalistic method are you proposing that would obviate the need for a Creator?

Your claim is that a deity exists and we must disprove it.  No, YOU claim that one exists and it is up you to prove that one does. 

No ancient person suddenly woke up and said in surprise that there is no deity, no one having ever thought of the idea before.  Instead, some one got the idea of a deity and proclaimed it.  From that point on, it was the responsibility of THAT person to provide proof of the new idea.

[Baruch]

Your claim is that a deity exists and we must disprove it.  No, YOU claim that one exists and it is up you to prove that one does. 

No ancient person suddenly woke up and said in surprise that there is no deity, no one having ever thought of the idea before.  Instead, some one got the idea of a deity and proclaimed it.  From that point on, it was the responsibility of THAT person to provide proof of the new idea.

Proof lies at the end of a gun - misquoting Mao.  Or in olden times, with Constantine, at the end of a spear.  They weren't having nice discussions!

[Cavebear]

Proof lies at the end of a gun - misquoting Mao.  Or in olden times, with Constantine, at the end of a spear.  They weren't having nice discussions!

And that matters to logic how?

[Baruch]

And that matters to logic how?

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds ... Oscar Wilde.

[Unbeliever]

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds ... Oscar Wilde.

And that was just another argument by assertion.

[Baruch]

And that was just another argument by assertion.

A gay assertion ... are you bigoted? ;-)

[Unbeliever]

WTF? Why even bring that into the discussion? Why would you be so stupid as to even ask me such a question, merely based on my post? Do you ever do anything other than play devil's advocate?

[Baruch]

WTF? Why even bring that into the discussion? Why would you be so stupid as to even ask me such a question, merely based on my post? Do you ever do anything other than play devil's advocate?

My god is the Devil (the one and only) so of course I am playing (see Brahman's wet dreams) and a devil's advocate.

Perhaps you don't know that Oscar Wilde was a flaming gay man ;-)

[Unbeliever]

Yes, I knew that without you having to enlighten me on the subject, but what does his gayness or otherwise have to do with my post?

[Baruch]

Yes, I knew that without you having to enlighten me on the subject, but what does his gayness or otherwise have to do with my post?

I ;-) at the idea, not assertion, that you are homophobic .. but I have no reason to believe you are .. it is just apropo to the vocabulary and person being quoted.

[Unbeliever]

So, everyone who's gay, and mentioned, you have to go straight to their gayness instead of just dealing with whatever's been said?