Author Topic: Christian Apologetics  (Read 4568 times)

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2017, 09:49:22 PM »
I really doubt that anyone has ever been able to interpret, much less confront "reality as it is" because no one has ever been able to perceive reality as it is. Probably never will. We can only interpret reality as it appears to us, and we each see it in a different way, from a different worldview.
I agree--'our' world is as we think it to be.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2017, 01:59:00 AM »
Heisreal, can you tells us why a god has a right to demand this thing called faith? For what reason should any of us have this thing called faith? The way I see it, if a god doesn't want to justify his actions but demands that we accept them, than he is no better than a bully. Just as well, if a god never shows his face, he has no right to expect anyone to believe he is real. And if a god never shows his face and still demands that we believe in him or he will punish us, then that god is sadistic.
not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline Baruch

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2017, 06:23:27 AM »
Heisreal, can you tells us why a god has a right to demand this thing called faith? For what reason should any of us have this thing called faith? The way I see it, if a god doesn't want to justify his actions but demands that we accept them, than he is no better than a bully. Just as well, if a god never shows his face, he has no right to expect anyone to believe he is real. And if a god never shows his face and still demands that we believe in him or he will punish us, then that god is sadistic.

Definitely cruel.  Possibly sado-masochistic.  I don't accept anyone's demands anyway.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2017, 04:48:05 AM »
I agree--'our' world is as we think it to be.

Oddly, I think "reality" is real.  Prick me and I bleed.  Push me over a wall and I fall.  Lack me of water and I die.  I find reality to be quite acceptable to my senses.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2017, 06:29:19 AM »
Oddly, I think "reality" is real.  Prick me and I bleed.  Push me over a wall and I fall.  Lack me of water and I die.  I find reality to be quite acceptable to my senses.

MikeCL is talking about the world of argument, not the world of the medical lab ;-)  You only go to the medical lab, because you believe (with partial justification) that the doctor's lab order can help you.  So MikeCLs statement and yours are complementary.  On the lack of water ... that is a reasonable assumption, but until you kill yourself, you don't know.  Even if you kill someone else, you don't know ... you might be immortal and an asshole (for killing someone).
שלום

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2017, 08:56:11 AM »
Oddly, I think "reality" is real.  Prick me and I bleed.  Push me over a wall and I fall.  Lack me of water and I die.  I find reality to be quite acceptable to my senses.
Sure the physical laws of the universe apply to all equally.  But what we think of as important is unique to us; reality is full of what we think of as real.  And I would suggest your reality and mine are different--but probably similar.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2017, 09:37:20 AM »
MikeCL is talking about the world of argument, not the world of the medical lab ;-)  You only go to the medical lab, because you believe (with partial justification) that the doctor's lab order can help you.  So MikeCLs statement and yours are complementary.  On the lack of water ... that is a reasonable assumption, but until you kill yourself, you don't know.  Even if you kill someone else, you don't know ... you might be immortal and an asshole (for killing someone).

Therefore, we should all die ASAP to see if a deity exists?  What if we choose the wrong one?

I can't imagine that Mithra would be too fond of a Thor believer...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2017, 05:59:35 PM »
If evolution is true, what purpose do we have, why are we here? If this life here on earth is all we have, what separates us from the animals? Why don't we just kill the weak and take what we want?

We don't have a "purpose" in the cosmological sense so by your sense we have every "right" to "kill the weak and take what we want". Your or my death is meaningless as far as the universe is concerned.

Quote
Why should we work if this is all we have to look forward to, knowing that soon we will die? We should be living it up knowing we don't have to answer to anyone.

Absolutely since we are not going anywhere after we die so lets live it up "knowing we don't have to answer to anyone" by that logic.

Quote
I submit to you that there is a God in heaven! We will all answer for what we have done and not done in this life on earth. There will be rewards for those who have done there best to live a moral life and help others along the way.

You can "submit" all you like but it won't make a difference to the rest of us. There won't be any rewards but I agree with the idea we should do our "best to live a moral life and help others along the way". Most atheists feel and live that way.

Quote
I Cor. 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Bullshit.

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2017, 06:10:01 PM »
I'm sorry you had a bad experience in searching for God. I can state the very reason that happened, but I'm sure it will be met with obscenities.

There is no reasoning with the Lord if His word is rejected.

Heb. 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Fine, you go grovel at the feet of your supreme being. Doubtfully you will end up in heaven

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2017, 06:38:10 PM »
No, I don't believe your testimony. We are called by faith not by sight.

John 20:29
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

2Cor. 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)


Reminds me of the song "Cherry Stones around my Plate".

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2017, 06:41:03 PM »
No, I don't believe your testimony. We are called by faith not by sight.

John 20:29
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

2Cor. 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)


Fine you walk by faith, frankly I'll walk by sight.

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2017, 06:51:38 PM »
I've never seen or heard of an organized group with the goal of exterminating atheists. I know of several organized groups over the past and present with the goal of exterminating Christians.

The most hated people on earth are the Jews, a close second is Judaeo Christianity. The Bible tells us all about how we will be hated and killed. History has recorded it and is presently recording it, all over the entire world, and it's getting worse.

But you, you are concerned with Christians turning and killing you. Don't worry, the Bible says no such thing. You're safe from the Christians. 

Bullshit; how about the inquisition? Don't tell me I'm safe from religious zealots not to mention that gods need to kill whole peoples is rampant in the Old Testment. Either you look to the whole bible or not. Cherry picking is an abomination and ought to be worthy of the death penalty

Obviously I'm having a shitty evening but the whole bible thing makes me feel like barfing.

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2017, 06:57:40 PM »
Don't pull on the elephant's tail.  A woman zoo keeper was killed giving an elephant an enema ... she was too close when it all came out ;-(

Citation please.

Offline Ro3bert

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2017, 06:59:33 PM »
You really do live in a fantasy world, don't you? Christians have never attempted to exterminate atheists? Give me a break.

Or other Christians for that matter.

Re: Christian Apologetics
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2017, 07:56:27 PM »
Or other Christians for that matter.
Yeah, like this fellow:


Quote from: Clemente Diaz Aguilar
My captors stole  everything from me...Those who captured me, in front of me, divided up my money, and later they led me into the hands of the torturers. In the long hours of torture, they asked me constantly about other pastors...of some churches in the capital; They asked me also about my views on liberation theology and about the liberation of the people of Israel. The torturers, tired of doing so much damage to me, rested for awhile; then, I recognized some of them: two are members of a singing duo from these churches [Verbo and Mission Elim]; I begged [them] to recognize me because I recognized them; then they asked me questions about my capture, my complete name, my address, my church and my activities. When they realized I was not the person they were looking for, they begged my forgiveness, saying,"Brother, we are also Christians.
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information