The Left is No Longer Liberal.

Started by pr126, January 25, 2017, 11:59:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Gilgamesh

I've taken to calling them the 'alt-left.' I won't call them liberal, because they're not. I'm liberal.

Atheon

#2
I'm a liberal, and regressives or SJWs are in no way, shape or form liberals. They are illiberal authoritarians with a cult-like mindset. They oppose open discourse and rational dialogue, they use dishonest debating tactics and fallacies to shut down opinions they disagree with. They don't seek equality, but instead they have developed their own hierarchy of privilege (sometimes known as the "progressive stack").

In fact, they are a lot like a cult, with their own version of original sin, confession, atonement, shunning, and unquestioning obedience to a leader.

I call them the far right of the left.

They are vocal online, but in reality they are few and far between, and are greatly disliked by normal liberals.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Gawdzilla Sama

We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

surreptitious57

I am socially liberal and economically conservative. But am generally left of centre. A liberal but a non ideological
one so to speak. I support social justice warriors when they are actively campaigning for positive change but I do
not support them when they are actively denying somebody their right to free speech. I support the humanitarian
aspect of social justice but not the authoritative nature of it so if only one could have the one rather than the both   
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

Munch

I've always felt liberal in what I believed, freedom of speech, progressive rights, a fair and balanced system. However in recent years the so called ideals of the liberal left has been pushing an agenda that doesn't care about equal balance of ideas, rather it would sooner ignore reason and logic just to force things like feminism against men, the religious laws that would oppress their own cause, and only looking at the world threw a narrow slit instead of the broader scope.

It's hard to call yourself a political side when those spearheading it go against the ideals you choose that side for, and since I'm naturally cynical, I have no problem criticising those ideals no less then the side I'm opposed to.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Baruch

The Left hasn't been liberal since the 1930s, when Stalin's foreign policy overtook all international socialism (in his war against Trotsky).  The Left was progressive in the 60s, as a way of attacking the US, and some anti-progressive politics was based on that association with the Soviet Union, so called fellow-travelers.  Because the US did change (at least  temporarily) it was defused.  But the Soviet Union is no more.  Of course some communists continued to support Trotsky or China or Albania or Cuba.  Since then, Euro-socialism has continued, with former Euro-communists moving into socialist parties.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

Quote from: Munch on February 06, 2017, 05:32:45 AM
I've always felt liberal in what I believed, freedom of speech, progressive rights, a fair and balanced system. However in recent years the so called ideals of the liberal left has been pushing an agenda that doesn't care about equal balance of ideas, rather it would sooner ignore reason and logic just to force things like feminism against men, the religious laws that would oppress their own cause, and only looking at the world threw a narrow slit instead of the broader scope.

It's hard to call yourself a political side when those spearheading it go against the ideals you choose that side for, and since I'm naturally cynical, I have no problem criticising those ideals no less then the side I'm opposed to.

Quote from: Baruch on February 06, 2017, 06:45:42 AM
The Left hasn't been liberal since the 1930s, when Stalin's foreign policy overtook all international socialism (in his war against Trotsky).  The Left was progressive in the 60s, as a way of attacking the US, and some anti-progressive politics was based on that association with the Soviet Union, so called fellow-travelers.  Because the US did change (at least  temporarily) it was defused.  But the Soviet Union is no more.  Of course some communists continued to support Trotsky or China or Albania or Cuba.  Since then, Euro-socialism has continued, with former Euro-communists moving into socialist parties.

I've been wondering for years what "liberal" and "conservative means."  Both, especially "liberal" have taken on a lot of negative baggage from detractors, and they never mean the same thing to different people.  Only the word, God, has more meanings and ways of being defined than the word, "liberal."

Does liberal mean, a social justice warrior or just a raving lunatic, or does it mean someone who believes in fair treatment of minorities?  Is it a tree hugger who advocates conservation of resources and less exploitation?  Does he drive a hybrid?  Does he believe in God?  Or is he just anyone that advocates something that someone else doesn't like?  Good Grief, Baruch seems to think liberal means Communist, something I pickup from him continually.  Really?  A fucking Communist?  OK, I know he doesn't really mean that because most of the time not even Baruch knows what he means, because half the time he's more interested in yanking chains and stirring pots.

If someone identifies themselves as a Democrat, everyone assumes he is a liberal, even though the Democratic Party is far to the right of liberal values of the 1960s when peace and equality were being promoted by long haired lunatics that kind of looked and acted like Jesus.

I'm a liberal the way others are Christians.  I look about, and point to others and accuse them of not being liberals, like Christians deny Christian-status to other Christians.  What I mean is that I believe in "THIS,... but not THAT."  I can hear people saying right away, "But you have to explain and define yourself to me so that I know what you mean."  But that's bullshit."  It's utter bullshit.  Others have made up their minds already, and the rub is that most do it without any information whatsoever, nor do they want information.  They just need to know if they should like you or hate you.  And few people care about much more.

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: surreptitious57 on February 06, 2017, 04:00:04 AM
I am socially liberal and economically conservative. But am generally left of centre. A liberal but a non ideological
one so to speak. I support social justice warriors when they are actively campaigning for positive change but I do
not support them when they are actively denying somebody their right to free speech. I support the humanitarian
aspect of social justice but not the authoritative nature of it so if only one could have the one rather than the both   
One trick pony man!
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

SGOS

That guy in the video looks like he's on coke.

Munch

Quote from: SGOS on February 06, 2017, 09:45:02 AM
That guy in the video looks like he's on coke.

You should see me on an early morning shift
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

SGOS

Quote from: Munch on February 06, 2017, 10:02:27 AM
You should see me on an early morning shift

Yeah, I thought maybe he's just tired, but his eyes look glassy, so I'm sure he's a liberal who just had a snort of nose candy.

Baruch

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
Everyone forgets history, even historians.
Even if we remembered it, it is narrative control from above.
Everyone ... a word means exactly what I say it means, no more and no less, welcome to Alice's Semantic Wonderland.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

Did you forget the part about sweeping generalizations?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Baruch

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on February 06, 2017, 01:46:49 PM
Did you forget the part about sweeping generalizations?

Math works ... a sweeping generalization ... so must be false ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.