Author Topic: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate  (Read 2336 times)

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2017, 03:27:42 PM »
What's the current status of posse comitatus and habeus corpus? I hope Chump isn't maniac enough to use the American military in Chicago, against American citizens!

But then, I'm a cynical pessimist, so I expect the worst...
Posse Comitatus applies to the use of the military to enforce laws within the boundaries of the states. "The feds" isn't a turn used on military very often, if at all.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »
Both were killed first by Bill Clinton, then by George W.  Barak has simply followed through to the logical conclusion ... the President is G-d.  Even more than Nixon claimed.  We used the National Guard in Watts, in 1965.  Not saying we will see that again (last time was in 1992 again in LA).  Are you offended?  And yes, under local military law, you have no snowflake rights.  You observe curfew and avoid crowds.  If you loot, you might get shot.  The reaction to the Baltimore riot last year was mild by the authorities.


Does the national guard come under the purview of posse comitatus?
God Not Found
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
Albert Einstein

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2017, 08:54:46 PM »
Posse committals and habeus corpus is dead (irony).  The Feds can be used anywhere in the US (and even the Federal Reserve has their own storm troopers) to enforce Federal law, that is what Lincoln was doing at Ft Sumpter.  Also all the folks who used to star with Mat Dillon on Gunsmoke, they are all dead now.

The crucial difference, is that starting with George W ... the National Guard was federalized, and kept that way.  Most people who serve over-seas are National Guard and Reservists, not Regulars.  This way, none of the Governors have any practical authority over them.  Any troops with regional sympathies are out of the way.

Anyone remember Jade Helm exercise just 18 months ago?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:59:59 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2017, 08:56:03 PM »
Trump wants Chicago to institute a policy of stop and frisk by the police similar to the one used in New York. The one that was ruled unconstitutional 3 or 4 years ago. While the effectiveness of such a policy at reducing violent crime can be argued, the legality of targeting racial minority men almost exclusively is indefensible in light of the 4th and 14th amendments.

Declare everyone a racial minority, and the issue becomes moot.  That is the whole point of modern White specialness.
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Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2017, 08:50:52 AM »
Does the national guard come under the purview of posse comitatus?
Officially, the US Army is the only branch covered under posse comitatus. I operated under it by orders of the Secretary of the Navy (given to the Deserter Apprehension Program explicitly when it was formed.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2017, 03:39:51 PM »
From Wiki ... yes/no ...
"Federal military personnel have a long history of domestic roles, including the occupation of secessionist Southern states during Reconstruction. The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of federal military personnel to "execute the laws"; however, there is disagreement over whether this language may apply to troops used in an advisory, support, disaster response, or other homeland defense role, as opposed to domestic law enforcement.[1]

On March 10, 2009, members of the U.S. Army Military Police Corps from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama, in response to a murder spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance nor did President Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received "administrative actions".[13][14]"

So it depends in which capacity they are used, and depending on what a judge thinks.  The last example is clear, because while the governor didn't authorize it, neither did the President.  But if a governor didn't authorize it, but a President did ... I see no problem.  That may happen in California shortly.  My original point being ... this was originally envisaged as part of States Rights, and governors as mini-CnC ... which is where the call-up of Confederate troops came from.  That will not be allowed to happen again.  De facto, the National Guard is federalized, otherwise the Civil Rights enforcements of the 1960s couldn't have happened, since no Southern governor would have authorized it.
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Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2017, 12:01:28 PM »
There are ways this won't work, and ways this might work.  Have the federal government take over administration of Chicago, suspend the gun laws, give a 9mm semi-automatic hand gun to every adult who doesn't have a criminal record, and wait.
Watch my fanfilm
The Null Zone

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2017, 01:19:59 PM »
There are ways this won't work, and ways this might work.  Have the federal government take over administration of Chicago, suspend the gun laws, give a 9mm semi-automatic hand gun to every adult who doesn't have a criminal record, and wait.
..who doesn't have a criminal record YET...
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2017, 01:39:34 PM »
..who doesn't have a criminal record YET...

Chicago .. Chicago .... my kind of town, my kind of town ...
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Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2017, 02:42:21 PM »
There are ways this won't work, and ways this might work.  Have the federal government take over administration of Chicago, suspend the gun laws, give a 9mm semi-automatic hand gun to every adult who doesn't have a criminal record, and wait.
Okay, so we have a good example of the won't work category.  What about the might work category?

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2017, 03:36:05 PM »
Okay, so we have a good example of the won't work category.  What about the might work category?

Looking for a will work?  Make gun ownership mandatory for all non-criminals instead of merely optional.
Watch my fanfilm
The Null Zone

Online Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2017, 03:52:30 PM »
Make gun ownership mandatory for all non-criminals instead of merely optional.
That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site, and we get creationists and flat earthers on occasion.

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2017, 04:25:52 PM »
Hm yes, because there is no statistical correlation between how hard it is to acquire a firearm and the high crime rates of various US citizens.
Watch my fanfilm
The Null Zone

Offline Cavebear

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2017, 06:11:13 AM »
Yes, break up California .. into one city state per county.  Divide and conquer.

Oh please let us do that.  Make California 5 States.  That will mean 8 more Democratic Senators!  In return, lets remand the District of Columbia to Maryland and solve THAT annoying electoral issue. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Trump threatens to "send in the Feds" to fix Chicago homicide rate
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2017, 07:27:34 AM »
Looking for a will work?  Make gun ownership mandatory for all non-criminals instead of merely optional.
Yeah, more guns always make things better.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers