Obama commutes Chelsea Manning's sentence

Started by Hydra009, January 17, 2017, 08:20:18 PM

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Hydra009

QuoteWASHINGTON â€" President Obama on Tuesday commuted all but four months of the remaining prison sentence of Chelsea Manning, the army intelligence analyst convicted of a 2010 leak that revealed American military and diplomatic activities across the world, disrupted his administration and brought global prominence to WikiLeaks, the recipient of those disclosures.

The decision by Mr. Obama rescued Ms. Manning, who twice tried to kill herself last year, from an uncertain future as a transgender woman incarcerated at the men’s military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. She has been jailed for nearly seven years, and her 35-year sentence was by far the longest punishment ever imposed in the United States for a leak conviction.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html

With all but 4 months commuted, she is expected to be freed by May 17, 2017.

'Bout time, imho.  She wasn't just jailed, she was often treated horribly, often in solitary confinement.  Much like waterboarding, solitary confinement can look fairly humane from the outside, but on the inside is a whole different story.  I know people will have different views on whistleblowers like Manning, but enough is enough.

And it goes without saying that the Republicans are not pleased with this news.  An editorial is already out describing in dark tones that "President Obama has granted leniency to a traitor" and suggesting that Manning's gender dysphoria is what "tipped the scales of presidential sympathy in Manning’s favor".  Morally and factually bankrupt stuff, as always from the Republicans.  Go figure.

Atheon

#1
Wonderful! Kudos to Obama... truly the best US president in 50+ years. Too bad you can't stay on. Too bad you are about to be replaced by the worst American in history.

Now free Edward Snowden, Mumia Abu Jamal, and everyone in prison for using marijuana.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Baruch

Quote from: Atheon on January 18, 2017, 04:41:06 AM
Wonderful! Kudos to Obama... truly the best US president in 50+ years. Too bad you can't stay on. Too bad you are about to be replaced by the worst American in history.

Now free Edward Snowden, Mumia Abu Jamal, and everyone in prison for using marijuana.

Now if someone would just posthumously exonerate Benedict Arnold ;-)  Obama is building a legacy, but not much of one.  He talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Atheon

Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2017, 06:21:26 AM
Now if someone would just posthumously exonerate Benedict Arnold ;-)  Obama is building a legacy, but not much of one.  He talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk.
Well, if he didn't have a Congress filled with mouth-breathing Neanderthal Repubes, summarily opposing him for no other reason than the fact that he's black, he might have been able to get a lot more good stuff done. As it is, he still accomplished a lot, and ended up being the best president since Kennedy (Bill Clinton being second best).

I'm glad he is freeing this American hero, and would love it of he would free Snowden, also a hero. He should give them medals while he still has time... before the dark times, before the Trumpire.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

widdershins

I don't care what level of "secret" you label it, telling the people of this country when the government is fucking you and egregiously trampling our rights not only should never get you arrested, it should get you fucking paid!  I would think Baruch would agree with that one, but apparently not.
This sentence is a lie...

SGOS

Quote from: widdershins on January 18, 2017, 11:46:07 AM
I don't care what level of "secret" you label it, telling the people of this country when the government is fucking you and egregiously trampling our rights not only should never get you arrested, it should get you fucking paid!  I would think Baruch would agree with that one, but apparently not.

Agreed.  "Traitor" might be correct depending on semantics, but I prefer the term "part of a whistle blowing operation."  Granted, Wiki Leaks doesn't use much judgment about what it leaks, but from what I could tell, it was either worthless information or politicians caught spreading embarrassing gossip.  35 years is overkill.  Some politician saying, "The president of Egypt is a douche," might piss off a few Muslims, but some politician saying that doesn't really cause a threat to National Security, even if said politician was being a jerk for saying it.  Come to think of it, why isn't being a jerk to Muslims considered a threat to national security?

Hydra009

Quote from: Atheon on January 18, 2017, 04:41:06 AMWonderful! Kudos to Obama... truly the best US president in 50+ years. Too bad you can't stay on. Too bad you are about to be replaced by the worst American in history.

Now free Edward Snowden, Mumia Abu Jamal, and everyone in prison for using marijuana.
Snowden would be another high profile whistleblower to pardon, but it's not going to happen, imho.  Obama's going to get a lot of flak over Manning, let alone Snowden.  It could've been done by the new president elect, but the one who got elected and the one who has a sane position on the issue wasn't the same person.

Baruch

Quote from: widdershins on January 18, 2017, 11:46:07 AM
I don't care what level of "secret" you label it, telling the people of this country when the government is fucking you and egregiously trampling our rights not only should never get you arrested, it should get you fucking paid!  I would think Baruch would agree with that one, but apparently not.

Don't read too much into my response, I used a ;-)

I haven't ever discussed the particular merits or demerits of any whistle-blowers.  I don't think I know enough to comment, only what I would do in those circumstances.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: Baruch on January 18, 2017, 12:37:24 PMI don't think I know enough to comment
You should probably just save that as your signature.  It would save everyone a lot of time.

Baruch

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 18, 2017, 12:39:48 PM
You should probably just save that as your signature.  It would save everyone a lot of time.

RAZZBERREY ;-)

People who think they know all the details about what is happening a court proceeding, know more than the judge and jury (not).  The mob would let go the guilty and hang the innocent.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Dreamer

Snowden can't be pardoned, can he? No sentence to pardon..
<br /><br />Individually, we are one drop.  Together, we are an ocean.<br /><br />

Hydra009

#11
Quote from: Dreamer on January 18, 2017, 07:08:32 PM
Snowden can't be pardoned, can he? No sentence to pardon..
This subject is surprisingly complicated, but from what I've gathered, the answer is yes.

Although rare, the President can and has pardoned people after the criminal incident took place but before charges were formally filed.  Ford's pardon of Nixon being the most famous example of that.  There were impeachment proceedings against Nixon, but they were dropped when he resigned.  Criminal prosecution was a possibility after Nixon's resignation, but that was prevented by the pardon.

Obama has mulled the possibility of pardoning Snowden, but has said that he can't* pardon him until Snowden has presented himself before a US court.

(* I dunno if he meant can't as in unable or unwilling in this context, but the reality is that it's unwilling, since the President can pardon people before they stand trial)

Sounds like one hell of a legal gamble, and considering Manning's treatment, Snowden's reluctance to set foot in the US prior to being pardoned is completely understandable.

Baruch

Assange says the deal is off anyway ... Obama didn't completely pardon him, just commuted his sentence.

You are correct about Gerald Ford vs Richard Nixon.  But that is why my father, a Republican, never forgave Ford.  If Obama tried to pardon Snowdon, he might have to take up residence permanently at the Bush ranch in Paraguay.  I don't see Trump doing it, unless Putin and he agreed on it ;-)  The exciting option is if Obama pardons Bill and Hillary Clinton before noon on Friday.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Atheon

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 18, 2017, 12:37:16 PM
Snowden would be another high profile whistleblower to pardon, but it's not going to happen, imho.  Obama's going to get a lot of flak over Manning, let alone Snowden.
Why would Obama care? It's not like he's going to run for president again. This is why presidents give pardons at the very end of their presidencies. They have nothing to lose.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Atheon

#14
Quote from: Baruch on January 19, 2017, 01:34:55 AM
Assange says the deal is off anyway ... Obama didn't completely pardon him, just commuted his sentence.
Yea, I wouldn't expect a scumbag like Assange to do the honorable thing.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca