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Conviction or Repetition

Started by fencerider, January 07, 2017, 01:14:33 AM

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fencerider

Quote from: joseph_ on January 30, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
It is elitist to denigrate the common experience of religion.
In what way is asking the question that people have religion because of habit or because of facts supported belief denigrating. I didn't say everyone does it out of habit. I asked how many.
"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

Hydra009

#121
Quote from: joseph_ on January 30, 2017, 08:19:27 PMIt is elitist to denigrate the common experience of religion.
Ummm...this "denigration" comes from the rich and famous all the way down to the lowliest street bum, so calling it elitist is risible.  Also, elitism typically refers to a social elite - a small group of people holding (typically inherited) positions of privilege and power.  You know, just putting a bad word in front of something you don't like doesn't make it bad, especially if there's no logical connection between the two things.

QuotePeople are rational beings and their actions are driven by rational criteria
??  Have you ever met any people?

Quoteeven if they are taught a certain way the faith is still confirmed to them through experience.
Yes, they are taught a certain way.  And surprise surprise, a large chunk of 'em not only believe it as adults, but try to sell it to anyone who will listen.  Adherents of the one true religion, every last one of them.  What are the odds?

QuotePeople raised in a religious home can have a spiritual experience that grounds their faith in the realm of experience, the realm of the rational.
Yep, like that time Francis Collins saw a frozen waterfall.  I forget how that was connected to Jesus, but it must've been, because that's the guy he started worshiping shortly thereafter.

QuoteMany people have similar religious views to their parents.
And why do think that's the case?

QuoteBut like science, which is continually reconfirmed through experimentation, the evidence of faith is reconfirmed through spirituality.
The big difference here is that with science, new facts are discovered and theories are refined or discarded.  With religion, it's not so much new facts as someone had some strange experience which they think is a sign from a god or prophet or angel, typically but not always confirming beliefs they already have.  The two are not comparable.

QuoteThese experiences are sufficiently powerful to shape the destinies of nations, as they have for thousands of years.
Lots of things shape the destinies of nations.  A potato famine changed the destinies of nations.  Some archduke getting shot changed the destinies of nations.  A few boats making landfall changed the destinies of nations a great many times.  So what?

QuoteReligious faith is much more nuanced and deep then mere childhood indoctrination.
Well, duh.  There's more to cults than just drinking the spirit juice, too.

fencerider

Quote from: joseph_ on January 30, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
the evidence of faith is reconfirmed through spirituality
The evidence of a belief in unconfirmed event is reconfirmed through living a life of faith.

I perceive a circular argument in there somewhere

Quote from: joseph_ on January 30, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
Religious faith is much more nuanced and deep then mere childhood indoctrination.
For some people, but not for everyone.
"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

fencerider

Quote from: Baruch on January 28, 2017, 07:57:57 PM
Moses is a Jewish fiction ... one of many fables we created
wow. Didn't know there wasn't ever a dude named Moses. So what is Jewish culture based off of? Why would the Jews be telling each other about Moses. Oh wait don't tell me. The dvd player wasn't invented yet, so people had to tell stories for entertainment.
"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

Baruch

Quote from: fencerider on January 30, 2017, 11:38:02 PM
The evidence of a belief in unconfirmed event is reconfirmed through living a life of faith.

I perceive a circular argument in there somewhere
For some people, but not for everyone.

All good theological arguments are circular ... which is to say, tautological ... what you would expect for talk about a perfect being ;-)  A pointless argument, one that starts with axioms that are assumed, and which has a never ending supply of dull theorems ... is contingent.  The third argument is self-contradictory.  Those are the theological arguments made by the Devil ;-)  Usually atheists avoid all argument, by rejecting all axioms. ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 30, 2017, 10:20:54 PM
And that is why i am not a Christian, I see G-d by sight, not by heart.

I don't really care a flying fig if you are christian or not.  All religious beliefs are equally insane to me.  Your religious belief exists and that is really all I need to know about you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 09:45:27 AM
I don't really care a flying fig if you are christian or not.  All religious beliefs are equally insane to me.  Your religious belief exists and that is really all I need to know about you.

I am shameless about my insanity.  Get with the dementia already!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

To me, better my casual unconcern than your reasoned insanity.  ;)
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 01:04:37 PM
To me, better my casual unconcern than your reasoned insanity.  ;)

One has to know when to leave well enough alone ;-)  Being concerned about every little thing ... makes an SJW.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

We should meet sometime. Are you ever near Cincinnati?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

#130
Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 01:40:49 PM
We should meet sometime. Are you ever near Cincinnati?

Sorry, but I stay away from ancient Roman Republican dictators ;-)

So, you were intrigued, then disillusioned.  You want to punch me in the face now? ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 01:40:49 PM
We should meet sometime. Are you ever near Cincinnati?
Cincinnati--I heard the chili is good--is it???
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 31, 2017, 06:33:38 PM
Cincinnati--I heard the chili is good--is it???

It is near Bengal-desh
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

Quote from: joseph_ on January 30, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
People are rational beings

No, they're not - "people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals." If people were rational the world wouldn't be 2 1/2 minutes from midnight on the doomsday clock.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 31, 2017, 06:47:09 PM
No, they're not - "people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals." If people were rational the world wouldn't be 2 1/2 minutes from midnight on the doomsday clock.

Zaphod Beeblebrox wasn't impressed by ape men, but he did have an ape girl friend ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.