Author Topic: Conviction or Repetition  (Read 8763 times)

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 04:41:30 PM »
Well, that's what I thought at one time, but I also have to admit that the motives of the Christian god and Allah aren't actually identical in the Bible and the Quran.  But it is possible to think they are identical descriptions if you use a lot of license to ignore the discrepancies and focus on the similarities.  But I'm quite sure we are talking about two different god's here, and the disparity between the two is even bigger than the disparity between the Catholic god and the Baptist god.

Also, if you meld the words of the scriptures with common Chrstian tropes invented without Biblical support, you can select concepts of both gods that make them appear identical.

I remember a radio evangelist (I get a kick out of listening to these guys while I drive sometimes) who said he had a conversation with a Muslim the other day (this was just after 9-11 so the evangelist was really fired up).  Apparently, the Muslim said, "But we actually both worship the same god," which only added more fuel to the minister's flaming anger.  And according to the sermon, he proceeded to take the dumb ass Muslim to the wood shed to give him a proper whoopin' as all Muslims deserve, where he clearly delineated the differences between their two gods, and left the Muslim quivering in his boots.

Of course this was a sermon, and late Saturday night, the evangelist probably realized he better get his ass in gear and come up with a topic for the next day's broadcast.  Who knows if he even had a conversation with a Muslim just "the other day" or not?  Who cares?  He just need a topic to get all "self righteous for God," and demonstrate to his flock how they should get fired up too.  In other words, it was most likely just a sermon that fell out of his brain because he needed to talk for an hour.  But it's great fun listening to these guys with their evangelical accent an autocratic delivery.

Even the Bible is inconsistent in its descriptions of God. Sometimes he's described as being all-powerful, but elsewhere he's afraid of people with iron chariots. Sometimes he's said to never change, but Moses managed to change God's mind when he said he would destroy the Hebrews. He's described as being a God of mercy in some places, and a consuming fire of wrath in others. Sometimes he punishes people for the sins of their ancestors, and other times he does not punish the sons for the sins of the father. The Bible's God has no consistent qualities.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 04:50:18 PM by Blackleaf »
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 04:57:46 PM »
How can that be when god does not even exist?  Except as a fiction in your head.






God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 05:58:26 PM »
So when did reading a book straight forward start becoming reading something out of context. I didn't your comment's first sentence and then jump around the rest of your paragraph. If you think that jumping around a book outside the author's intent, which would be reading it straight from front to back, then you're reading the book wrong.
It's kind of like looking at a seeing all the evidence for a murderer who has been proven guilty, and then looking only at the evidence that the murderer gave for him not killing and saying that he did nothing wrong because the defendant had nothing to say.
I hear you Journey.  But reading religious texts is not like reading a novel or history book.  Take the bible for instance.  The bible did not fall to the earth complete.  It was cobbled together over time from many many different writings.  The bible was put together to further the views of whichever group it was that put the version of that text you are now reading.  There are more than one version of the bible, with each version being different.  With the NT, for example, if one were to take the KJV and arrange it in chronological order,  the first 'books' would be Paul's writings.  The order of the synoptics would be Mark first, followed by Matt, Luke/Acts, then John.  Reading in this order gives one a different picture of Jesus than reading ti in the traditional manner.  There are many ways to tackle religious texts.  But it still leads one to think it is still a fiction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 06:36:11 PM »
I mean, unless you were someone like pops, who doesn't know how to take the biggest book of pranks as the biggest book of pranks.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 07:42:04 PM »
I mean, unless you were someone like pops, who doesn't know how to take the biggest book of pranks as the biggest book of pranks.

Kosher pranks, on Gentiles ... get it right ...
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 07:43:21 PM »
How can that be when god does not even exist?  Except as a fiction in your head.

Whoever you think George Washington was ... is just a fiction in your head.  My head holds a different fiction of him.  Only Plato knows the Eternal Forms ... thru his magical Greek organ.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 07:53:46 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 07:43:55 PM »
Kosher pranks, on Gentiles ... get it right ...

Sorry, how unsanitary of me
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 07:45:31 PM »
Here's a scene from one of my favorite but obscure British comedies, Cold Comfort Farm, where sinners attend the a service at the Church of Quivering Brethren, so called because the minister verbally beats the shit out of them and tells them it's too late, and no matter what they do, they will burn in Hell, which leaves them quivering.  And they keep coming back to church every week just to quiver in the futility of their horrible destiny.



Making fun of Quakers (Friends) and Shakers?  How cruel to an oppressed minority group, you big meanie!  The Shakers are actually extinct .. it is safest to slander extinct religious groups, like Sumerian worshippers of Enki ... no fear of lawsuits!
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 07:46:58 PM »
So when did reading a book straight forward start becoming reading something out of context. I didn't your comment's first sentence and then jump around the rest of your paragraph. If you think that jumping around a book outside the author's intent, which would be reading it straight from front to back, then you're reading the book wrong.
It's kind of like looking at a seeing all the evidence for a murderer who has been proven guilty, and then looking only at the evidence that the murderer gave for him not killing and saying that he did nothing wrong because the defendant had nothing to say.

Sorry ... i will comment to the big boys next time ;-)  Is that how you read books?  Maybe if you educated yourself in literary criticism first.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 07:50:07 PM »
Even the Bible is inconsistent in its descriptions of God. Sometimes he's described as being all-powerful, but elsewhere he's afraid of people with iron chariots. Sometimes he's said to never change, but Moses managed to change God's mind when he said he would destroy the Hebrews. He's described as being a God of mercy in some places, and a consuming fire of wrath in others. Sometimes he punishes people for the sins of their ancestors, and other times he does not punish the sons for the sins of the father. The Bible's God has no consistent qualities.


Yes, and the US statutory code is perfectly consistent too.  The Bible is an anthology of Jewish literature.  Do you try to go read Elie Wiesel's "Night" for legal guidance?  Or are you just indifferent to Jewish literature ... I don't mind if you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_(book)
שלום

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 07:53:11 PM »
Sorry ... i will comment to the big boys next time ;-)  Is that how you read books?  Maybe if you educated yourself in literary criticism first.

Man I just love being a stupid kid. Yes, that's how I'd read a work of fiction.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2017, 07:56:17 PM »
Man I just love being a stupid kid. Yes, that's how I'd read a work of fiction.

Keep reading ... eventually you might want to understand the author better, or the original audience of the book/play.  Why do people write at all?
שלום

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 08:00:21 PM »
Keep reading ... eventually you might want to understand the author better, or the original audience of the book/play.  Why do people write at all?

Okay, I'm going to go read Ender's Game from the the first chapter now, and then I'm going to skip 5 and read chapter 6, and then I'll skip then end, I'll understand the entire book. That makes a lot of sense.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.

Offline Baruch

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2017, 08:02:30 PM »
Okay, I'm going to go read Ender's Game from the the first chapter now, and then I'm going to skip 5 and read chapter 6, and then I'll skip then end, I'll understand the entire book. That makes a lot of sense.

I always read the last chapter first or second.  Only losers don't cheat ;-)
שלום

Re: Conviction or Repetition
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2017, 08:05:54 PM »
I always read the last chapter first or second.  Only losers don't cheat ;-)

I do like reading the last page first. By the way, your method of reading makes no sense whatsoever, I do not see how that would be beneficial to the reader at all.
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." - Voltaire

Maths is a game where you make the rules and play around within them.