Questions about the magic virgin baby

[brianz]

Sometimes it's not the utter lack of evidence for the Jesus myth that drives me nuts, it's the horrendously convoluted logic.  Today I've been wondering the following:

• Many Christians speak of the "sacrifice that Jesus made" and talk about how "Jesus sacrificed himself for us."  Uhh... so the crucifixion was his choice?  His idea, as a favor to us?  That's not the way the Babble tells it.


• Why do so many Christians hate Jews for "killing Jesus"?  If the Jews hadn't given him up, then he couldn't have died for our sins.  Shouldn't Christians be thankful that Jews contributed to his death?  Without his death, we'd have no "redemption".  And, as above, didn't Jesus "sacrifice himself"?  So why hate Jews if Jesus did in fact choose to get himself crucified as a special favor to me?


• Why is there nothing written about Jesus as a child or teenager?  Seems like he goes from baby to Messiah rather quickly.

All religion is crap, but Christianity is just an absolute insult to my logical faculties.

[surly74]

yes, bigger plot holes than Iron Man 3.

[Poison Tree]

Sometimes it's not the utter lack of evidence for the Jesus myth that drives me nuts, it's the horrendously convoluted logic.  Today I've been wondering the following:

• Many Christians speak of the "sacrifice that Jesus made" and talk about how "Jesus sacrificed himself for us."  Uhh... so the crucifixion was his choice?  His idea, as a favor to us?  That's not the way the Babble tells it.

Let's look at the "sacrifice" Jesus made. Yes, he was killed horribly, but in a way that literally thousands, even tens of thousands, of his contemporaries were killed. Unlike the rest of the lot, however, he got a nice three day weekend to recuperate before being returned to life and granted more supper powers. All the zealots and Jewish rebels who were crucified during the Roman rule in Syria/Judea sacrificed far more--they actually died for real not this 3 day hibernation of Jesus.

• Why do so many Christians hate Jews for "killing Jesus"?  If the Jews hadn't given him up, then he couldn't have died for our sins.  Shouldn't Christians be thankful that Jews contributed to his death?  Without his death, we'd have no "redemption".  And, as above, didn't Jesus "sacrifice himself"?  So why hate Jews if Jesus did in fact choose to get himself crucified as a special favor to me?

Yes, this is an interesting one. What if the Jews didn't want the Romans to kill Jesus? "Well they had to because god willed it/foresaw it/it was part of his plan." Oh, so the Jews had no choice; they were forced by God to be Christ-killers? "No, god respects free will when he forced people to follow his plan."  

• Why is there nothing written about Jesus as a child or teenager?  Seems like he goes from baby to Messiah rather quickly.

There are some apocryphal books that contain wild stories about Jesus growing up. I seem to remember him striking dead boys who were teasing him, resurrecting a dead friend (who's death I believe he was partly responsible for), giving life to clay birds he sculpted and stretching out a board his dad had cut too short.

[widdershins]

Man, the Bible is full of good things which teach us how to live our lives righteously.  This thread has inspired me to give a homeless person $100.  3 days from now I'm going to go take it back from him if I have to beat it out of him.  For the next 2,000 years I want to hear nothing be people praising me for the sacrifice of my $100 to help that poor, bloody homeless man.  I am such a great person.

[stromboli]

You are looking for rational answers from irrational belief. Stop it. Stop it now.

[PickelledEggs]

This is exactly what would have happened if there was actually a virgin birth in chronological order (hypothetically of course):
I put a spoiler because it is kind of.... off and I can see how some people could get offended by it.

READ AT YOUR OWN DISGRESSION!

[spoil:1uy1v1zb]-Mary gets knocked up by god
-Mary shows signs of pregnancy
-Joseph says WTF
-Back then women would have been killed for adultery so, when Mary tells Joseph that it's god's baby he now not only thinks she commited adultery, but is also Bat-s**t crazy and Joseph kills mary and the baby inside.
-Jesus is now in limbo for eternity because he never was born and couldn't accept himself as savior
-Flash forward to now... all christians wear embryos around thier necks instead of crosses.
-Dead baby jokes are now not only in bad taste but also herecy.[/spoil:1uy1v1zb]

[brianz]

Thanks all. I'll have to look into some of the clay bird stories. Sounds amusing.

The paradoxical Jew-blaming reminds me of a Dateline or something that I saw recently where some maniac killed a woman for sport and the woman's mom said that it was god's plan and that god must have needed to call her home for his big "plan".  Then just a couple minutes later she said she wanted the death penalty for the killer. Wasn't the killer just carrying out god's plan?  A helpless, manipulated pawn doing his holy bidding?  The mother should have regarded him as god's holy hitman and worshipped him, not sought his execution.

[Colanth]

Thanks all. I'll have to look into some of the clay bird stories. Sounds amusing.

The paradoxical Jew-blaming reminds me of a Dateline or something that I saw recently where some maniac killed a woman for sport and the woman's mom said that it was god's plan and that god must have needed to call her home for his big "plan".  Then just a couple minutes later she said she wanted the death penalty for the killer. Wasn't the killer just carrying out god's plan?  A helpless, manipulated pawn doing his holy bidding?  The mother should have regarded him as god's holy hitman and worshipped him, not sought his execution.

It was god's plan that he be executed.  (They can justify anything, not just the imaginable, but the utterly unfathomable too.)

[Minimalist]

Why is there nothing written about Jesus as a child or teenager?

He was a juvenile delinquent and sent to live in a group home.