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Jesus' Origin Story

Started by Blackleaf, December 21, 2016, 06:00:15 PM

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popsthebuilder

Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2017, 01:10:23 PM
Only enlightened conscience does that.
I didn't say that, and do not consider my conscience to be enlightened, or me. To know of things and still not do them, or actively turn from them is THE sin.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good


Sorginak

Sin is invented nonsense.


Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2017, 12:54:25 PM
Consumer much?  Will you die with the most boy toys?
Seems to me that is a shallow (consumerism) conclusion to reach based on what I said.  Seems more a reflection of you than me.

I want to help my neighbor with that fence.  I want to rescue that dog that needs food and shelter.  I want to give that homeless man a jacket for the chilly nights he must endure.  I want to go see a baseball game.  I want to help my wife with dinner prep.  I want to vacuum the house.  I want to hold my dog.  I want to take a nap.  I want to play my computer game.  I want to go for a walk.  I want to..................................I could go on and on.  Yes, some is I want to buy something; but not all that much any more.  When I have no motivation, then I usually just take a nap.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Blackleaf

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 07, 2017, 07:59:47 PM
Seems to me that is a shallow (consumerism) conclusion to reach based on what I said.  Seems more a reflection of you than me.

I want to help my neighbor with that fence.  I want to rescue that dog that needs food and shelter.  I want to give that homeless man a jacket for the chilly nights he must endure.  I want to go see a baseball game.  I want to help my wife with dinner prep.  I want to vacuum the house.  I want to hold my dog.  I want to take a nap.  I want to play my computer game.  I want to go for a walk.  I want to..................................I could go on and on.  Yes, some is I want to buy something; but not all that much any more.  When I have no motivation, then I usually just take a nap.

When I have no motivation, I argue with people on the internet. lol
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Cavebear

Wanting to buy something is not the same as desiring to take that something from a neighbor.  Covet all you want and get it for yourself honestly.  Take not...  ;)
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Cavebear

Quote from: popsthebuilder on April 07, 2017, 06:36:38 PM
I didn't say that, and do not consider my conscience to be enlightened, or me. To know of things and still not do them, or actively turn from them is THE sin.

peace

faith in selfless unity for good

Sin is a religious failing with deistic punishments.  Did you mean an ethical failure?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Cavebear on April 12, 2017, 06:24:51 AM
Sin is a religious failing with deistic punishments.  Did you mean an ethical failure?
You seem to be basing your assertions on partial truths friend.

Sin for me is that thing knowingly done or knowingly not done regardless of perceived ability to do so, and perceived good and/or right reason/ motivation to do so. It is a subjective and personal thing.

Sin is known after the fact by shame.

The conscience is the link to The creative force and benevolent nature there of.

Just because the word sin brings conotations of organized religion for some apparently; for me it has very little to do with the congregation, or the attempt by the powerful, to manipulate the masses. Not that those things haven't or don't currently happen, just that the word sin isn't synonymous with what you stated.

The word is a descriptor. My use of said word doesn't agree with your own.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk


Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on April 12, 2017, 09:18:12 AM
You seem to be basing your assertions on partial truths friend.

Sin for me is that thing knowingly done or knowingly not done regardless of perceived ability to do so, and perceived good and/or right reason/ motivation to do so. It is a subjective and personal thing.

Sin is known after the fact by shame.

The conscience is the link to The creative force and benevolent nature there of.

Just because the word sin brings conotations of organized religion for some apparently; for me it has very little to do with the congregation, or the attempt by the powerful, to manipulate the masses. Not that those things haven't or don't currently happen, just that the word sin isn't synonymous with what you stated.

The word is a descriptor. My use of said word doesn't agree with your own.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
Pops, the problem you have in trying to describe to us what your religion is, is just that;  it is yours.  It is defined by you.  So, you are always right--for you.    I reject most of your personal definitions, for I have my own.  For me there are no 'Truths'--not one!  There are some 'truths'--for me.  Those are the ethical lines (I don't see anything as a moral) I will not cross--but those are personal and I don't expect you to share them.  We all live in our own little universes--and my universe rejects much of what your universe espouses. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 12, 2017, 10:57:50 AM
Pops, the problem you have in trying to describe to us what your religion is, is just that;  it is yours.  It is defined by you.  So, you are always right--for you.    I reject most of your personal definitions, for I have my own.  For me there are no 'Truths'--not one!  There are some 'truths'--for me.  Those are the ethical lines (I don't see anything as a moral) I will not cross--but those are personal and I don't expect you to share them.  We all live in our own little universes--and my universe rejects much of what your universe espouses.
So you draw some dividing line between ethical and moral?

Interesting

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Baruch

Quote from: popsthebuilder on April 12, 2017, 09:18:12 AM
You seem to be basing your assertions on partial truths friend.

Sin for me is that thing knowingly done or knowingly not done regardless of perceived ability to do so, and perceived good and/or right reason/ motivation to do so. It is a subjective and personal thing.

Sin is known after the fact by shame.

The conscience is the link to The creative force and benevolent nature there of.

Just because the word sin brings conotations of organized religion for some apparently; for me it has very little to do with the congregation, or the attempt by the powerful, to manipulate the masses. Not that those things haven't or don't currently happen, just that the word sin isn't synonymous with what you stated.

The word is a descriptor. My use of said word doesn't agree with your own.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

You must let them predefine words, so that their conclusions (which they have already drawn) make sense.  As a shameless AF poster ... I know I am forgiven.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on April 12, 2017, 10:57:50 AM
Pops, the problem you have in trying to describe to us what your religion is, is just that;  it is yours.  It is defined by you.  So, you are always right--for you.    I reject most of your personal definitions, for I have my own.  For me there are no 'Truths'--not one!  There are some 'truths'--for me.  Those are the ethical lines (I don't see anything as a moral) I will not cross--but those are personal and I don't expect you to share them.  We all live in our own little universes--and my universe rejects much of what your universe espouses.

I agree with you.  But be careful not to claim "objective" status for morals or ethics elsewhere (other than to state the obvious, that it is the rationalization of the powerful)  As a demigod, you are powerful, powerful enough to define words to your liking, absolve yourself or not of guilt, to put yourself in relative opposition to society or the authorities.  Even Heracles didn't tell King Eurystheus where to stuff his 12 labors.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Ananta Shesha

Quote from: Munch on December 22, 2016, 07:17:40 PM
When you think, if I were Jesus I'd be pretty pissed off. So your dad is the creator of the universe, he made everything and everyone you know, so you'd think being the son of the creator of everything, you would have been given at least some level of power he has. I mean Franklyn Richards, son of Reed and Sue, got given the power to alter reality on a cosmic level, leagues above his parents, yet for Jesus, all he gets is a healing power, the power to shaman water walk in wow, and do a self res, like shamans in wow.

I'd expect more from a dad who can do anything, but instead just fucks with people for fun.. actually now I think of it, that makes more sense why jesus didn't get anymore powers given to him.
John 10:18 No one takes it (my life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

And most think he only used that power once....*shrugs*

Baruch

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 14, 2017, 11:36:51 PM
John 10:18 No one takes it (my life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

And most think he only used that power once....*shrugs*

Part of the more general theological condition of "kenosis" or "emptying".  This is part of the profound mystery of incarnation.  Except I think that every real person is Jesus, not just fictional ones.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Ananta Shesha

Quote from: Baruch on April 15, 2017, 12:11:46 AM
Part of the more general theological condition of "kenosis" or "emptying".  This is part of the profound mystery of incarnation.  Except I think that every real person is Jesus, not just fictional ones.
"Ye are gods."? Surely you jest!

From where I am looking by what I have found, if the story of Jesus is all allegory, it's a retelling of universal Truth. If the story of Jesus of his true, it's a reoccurrence of universal Truth.

Baruch

Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 15, 2017, 12:16:53 AM
"Ye are gods."? Surely you jest!

From where I am looking by what I have found, if the story of Jesus is all allegory, it's a retelling of universal Truth. If the story of Jesus of his true, it's a reoccurrence of universal Truth.

Wrong definition of truth.  The logicians use Newspeak.  2+2=4 isn't true, it is consistent.  Don't make metaphors into similes.  All human stories, including my own, your own ... these are all ad-lib fictions.  In that sense Buddha is right, our egos are fictions, same as Shakespeare's Hamlet.  Some fictional characters have more verisimilitude ... but literary critics can never be completely tamed.  All the world is a stage, and we are but B-movie actors.  History is propaganda, same as hagiography and mythology.  It is just some of it is supported by the secular state (aka history).  Herodotus started truthiness.

But yes, the bits and pieces of the literary creation that is Jesus ... came from many source.  including Kabbalah ... see the Gospel of Mary.

And yes, I am a funny guy, just got to get it off my jest.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.