Author Topic: Jesus' Origin Story  (Read 9822 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2016, 11:29:39 AM »
You are born, you live, you die.  I find the middle part to be most interesting.  For some people, they have a death fixation.  So Jesus' fictional death is much less interesting to me than his fictional life ... but I don't value his fictional birth much either.

Did you help someone today, someone who needed it, and wanted it?  Did you provide help with compassion and without arrogance?  Pray, repent, help ... repeat cycle.  But I think that without a change of heart ... your help will be weak or inverted.  And if you expect this to happen thru Adam Smith's Hidden Hand ... then you are kidding yourself.  You don't repent or do good deeds, without intention.  Prayer is a refocussing of your intention.  Will you do something or nothing?  If you do something, will it be a good thing, and will you do it with the right intention?  No, you don't have to be a theist to do this, you just have to be a human being.
שלום

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2016, 12:27:54 PM »
You are born, you live, you die.  I find the middle part to be most interesting.  For some people, they have a death fixation.  So Jesus' fictional death is much less interesting to me than his fictional life ... but I don't value his fictional birth much either.

Did you help someone today, someone who needed it, and wanted it?  Did you provide help with compassion and without arrogance?  Pray, repent, help ... repeat cycle.  But I think that without a change of heart ... your help will be weak or inverted.  And if you expect this to happen thru Adam Smith's Hidden Hand ... then you are kidding yourself.  You don't repent or do good deeds, without intention.  Prayer is a refocussing of your intention.  Will you do something or nothing?  If you do something, will it be a good thing, and will you do it with the right intention?  No, you don't have to be a theist to do this, you just have to be a human being.
Great message.  I think of it daily.  Just a couple of quibbles.  I don't call it prayer, but reflection.  And I don't need an underpinning of Adam Smith or anyone else.  Just check in with myself and do what I think I should.  Repent is an interesting word--totally ruined by theists.  I call it change.  I reflect on something I did, or did not do, and try to determine if I was right in my action, or inaction.  If so, then I strive to change.

Great message, tho...................
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2016, 04:49:31 PM »
I reflect on something I did, or did not do, and try to determine if I was right in my action, or inaction.  If so, then I strive to change.

So, you strive to change when you were right in your action or inaction?

Hmmm... :headscratch:
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2016, 04:56:21 PM »
You are born, you live, you die.  I find the middle part to be most interesting.  For some people, they have a death fixation.  So Jesus' fictional death is much less interesting to me than his fictional life ... but I don't value his fictional birth much either.


“A free man thinks of nothing less than of death, and his wisdom is a meditation, not on death, but on life.”
Baruch Spinoza, Ethics
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2016, 05:02:59 PM »
So, you strive to change when you were right in your action or inaction?

Hmmm... :headscratch:
Well, hell ya, man.  Who wants to walk around right all the time!!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2017, 09:10:33 PM »
BORING!  No radiation.  No nuclear explosion.  No toxic waste.  Not even a dark matter explosion!  You won't be writing for Marvel anytime soon.  I'd try DC.  They like boring super heroes.

Here's a stumper for you.  What exactly did Jesus dying on the cross do for us?  As far as I can tell it didn't do anything at all for us.  Before Jesus we could get to Heaven if we just became Jews.  After Jesus we could get to Heaven if we just became Christians.  Aside from not having to pointlessly slaughter my best goats any more I can't see any way this was anything more than a rebranding.
His self sacrifice was a means to spread His teachings and example throughout the world

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2017, 09:14:18 PM »
You are born, you live, you die.  I find the middle part to be most interesting.  For some people, they have a death fixation.  So Jesus' fictional death is much less interesting to me than his fictional life ... but I don't value his fictional birth much either.

Did you help someone today, someone who needed it, and wanted it?  Did you provide help with compassion and without arrogance?  Pray, repent, help ... repeat cycle.  But I think that without a change of heart ... your help will be weak or inverted.  And if you expect this to happen thru Adam Smith's Hidden Hand ... then you are kidding yourself.  You don't repent or do good deeds, without intention.  Prayer is a refocussing of your intention.  Will you do something or nothing?  If you do something, will it be a good thing, and will you do it with the right intention?  No, you don't have to be a theist to do this, you just have to be a human being.
Good post

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2017, 09:17:06 PM »
His self sacrifice was a means to spread His teachings and example throughout the world
Just what the fuck sacrifice did this fiction perform?  If jesus is god, or the son of god, then offing yourself proves nothing.  You know you are going to live at the highest level of heaven.  You know that you can come back as a human if for some reason you'd want to.  That is not much of a sacrifice; in fact it is not sacrifice, but showboating.   

What example is he supposed to be promoting?  And if he wanted to promote it around the world, why not go around the world?  Surely he would know how to do that?  Let's face it--your god is not only lacking, but is truly stupid.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2017, 09:19:07 PM »
Just what the fuck sacrifice did this fiction perform?  If jesus is god, or the son of god, then offing yourself proves nothing.  You know you are going to live at the highest level of heaven.  You know that you can come back as a human if for some reason you'd want to.  That is not much of a sacrifice; in fact it is not sacrifice, but showboating.   

What example is he supposed to be promoting?  And if he wanted to promote it around the world, why not go around the world?  Surely he would know how to do that?  Let's face it--your god is not only lacking, but is truly stupid.
Your confusion is profound

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2017, 09:20:34 PM »
Your confusion is profound
MY confusion is profound!! :))))))))  god what a belly laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, that's two in the space of two days.  You guys keep it up!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2017, 05:33:43 AM »
His self sacrifice was a means to spread His teachings and example throughout the world

I agree that the drama of his sacrifice does help to sell the story.  Although, I would quibble over the concept of self sacrifice, because he was sacrificed by his father, and like any other mortal, he was not fully understanding why his life was snuffed out by his father for the pleasure of his father:  "Why has thou forsaken me?"  Sacrifices to gods, are intended to please the gods.  It's always been the case.  That includes the Christian god, and the purpose is to curry favor by pleasuring the god in question.  Please don't tell me he sacrificed himself as an act of love for mankind.  That sounds altruistic to those who don't give it much thought, but actually, the story is bloody, vulgar, offensive, and designed to appeal to the most perversely sick elements of human society.  It simply sells, especially to those who are preoccupied with the vulgarity of the subject.

While the morbid brutality does increase the drama and the strength of the advertisement, it's stated purpose, at least if you take any stock in what the Bible says, is to be the final sacrifice, so that no more goats, sheep, or first born sons would ever have to be slaughtered to please the one who claims to have the exclusive rights to the title of "Big Kahuna."

Of course, this is all just a story, created by scientifically ignorant writers who were a product of the morally offensive practices of the day.  Arguing this from a theological standpoint is equivalent to taking seriously the insane ravings of Adolph Hitler and Charles Manson.  Of course, this is what humans do, because in the end we are just self glorified apes claiming to be mirror images of the blood thirsty gods we created to take a special interest in us and to satisfy our egos.

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2017, 06:11:37 AM »
There is not one origin of Jesus story. It's a hero saving people story. It's the oldest story. It is not even the last one. It got a big break, because of the circumstances and the time it coincided; the culture it produced has been dictating the world.

There is no rationality or logic in dicussing what did he do or say and happening in the story and why. It's a series of parables in different levels. It doesn't make any sense.

The story of a svaiour man was made an official religion by an emperor in his death bed, because he was scared of slaves and soldiers believing in it in too great numbers. Later, the protagonist was turned into a god, and his mother into a virgin in a council, because all mythical heroship is based on being some sort of superhuman, god or being related to a god by family or a 'supernatural' circumstance fitting the order required.

You can't have a single mom sleeping around, or a human father, if you are going to make the son god. You can't have a human being walking around just talking to people, you need to make him do 'magical' things, so people would hear/listen about him, because men always talk to men. You can't kill sacrfice a man to save men, because men has always died for other men. You need to scarifice a god, so the me-me-me monkey will listen the story. (Commercial line; 'You deserve the best')

Nobody watches a 'man movie', where a Clark born to Kents walking-running around trying to save people as a rescue trooper. Doesn't sell. People want to watch a 'superman movie' where he flies. You wouldn't know it was made if it was 'man movie'. Audience was the same thousands of years ago. And before that and before that. Scripts were better and more benign though.

Exactly the same way, that's why at some point god got promoted to the creator of the universe, but not just the world. (Though I am not sure if the believers got promoted to get the difference.) Long before, it was just the forest or the mountain he created, it was the 'village', before that it was the fire in the cave...etc. That's also why we have Intelligent Design today. Adjustment.

There is not one origin to this story, it does not need an origin.

 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 06:19:14 AM by drunkenshoe »

Online aitm

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2017, 09:49:52 AM »
His self sacrifice was a means to spread His teachings and example throughout the world

thankfully he had tens of thousands willing to murder the fucks what wouldn't accept his blessed teachings of peace, or "he" would have gone the way of the Poseidon. Nothing says peace like killing all the people, raping and selling the kids into slavery and proclaiming god as the one true lord of peace.

"Thank you jebus for murdering all my family and neighbors so that I could be sold off to slavery and raped and forced to accept you. amen"

Yeah. I think praying to a rat is more beneficial.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2017, 10:03:00 AM »
thankfully he had tens of thousands willing to murder the fucks what wouldn't accept his blessed teachings of peace, or "he" would have gone the way of the Poseidon. Nothing says peace like killing all the people, raping and selling the kids into slavery and proclaiming god as the one true lord of peace.

"Thank you jebus for murdering all my family and neighbors so that I could be sold off to slavery and raped and forced to accept you. amen"

Yeah. I think praying to a rat is more beneficial.
You conflate the misdirection of man with the direction GOD desires of life and creation.

Re: Jesus' Origin Story
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2017, 10:04:05 AM »
There is not one origin of Jesus story. It's a hero saving people story. It's the oldest story. It is not even the last one. It got a big break, because of the circumstances and the time it coincided; the culture it produced has been dictating the world.

Yeah, just consider the name 'Jesus' (or Joshua in earlier stories of this culture) means savior.  So, this hero's name was not Fred, or Jack or Rufus, but Jesus--Savior.  Wow, how original--how convenient.  How idiotic, how obvious.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?