Anna Akana: "Are We Too Politically Correct?"

Started by Shiranu, December 20, 2016, 02:49:27 AM

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Shiranu




Quote"And to be honest, my first thought was, "Oh my god... another word I cant use. Another word that is offensive to people.".


But then I realised; who cares what I think? Who cares that I am slightly inconvenienced by someone else's plight? Why am I so annoyed that I have to say three extra syllables to be respectful to them?


I feel like this shouldn't even have to be a discussion... forget about if it's right or wrong, stupid or not... it's not a matter of any of that, it's about basic respect. If someone asks you to call them a certain way, to not address their sexuality in a demeaning tone, whatever... respecting that is just the sign of someone who was brought up with a little bit of respect for their fellow human. There is literally almost nothing that could inconvenience you less than changing what words you use to describe something, and you show respect and compassion to another living being. There is no reason that should be controversial.

And as many are self proclaimed humanists, one's actions perhaps should be more in line with one's words.

Also...


QuoteI think Sarah Silvermann put it best when she said, "Young people are always on the right side of history."



Pr right now...


"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

PickelledEggs

Retarded is a great insult, and that will never change.

Let me use it in a sentence.... "The amount of politically correctness this world has come to is retarded."

Now, lets dissect the word "redtarded". Retarded, or more specifically retard, is a word that means "to slow" or "delayed". For instance, if I was to paint with acrylic and wanted to make it dry at a prolonged rate, I can do that. The product I would add is a retarder. Similarly, if someone is mentally challenged, they are retarded. They have a hindered mental development, or a delayed mental development. Choose to be offended by one word that is able to explain what something is where otherwise you would need multiple words, but someone that is mentally challenged, is retarded.

If someone is acting stupid, regressive or whatnot, you can say it's "retarded". It's short, sweet, and to the point. Maybe the "to the point" part is the thing that people don't like.

Now, while I think we have thrusted ourselves in to an overly PC age, it's really not too much more PC than the past. There are words that are off limits now, just like there were words that were off limits in the past. Society changes and the people in charge of society changes what is OK to say and what isn't as the years pass. George Carlin's "7 dirty words you can't use on TV" is almost obsolete and instead, we have a new set of words we can't say.

Whatever the list of words we "can't say" or shouldn't say changes to is unimportant and trivial. You're a sheep if you give feel the obligation to fall in line with it. Why? because speech control is society control. Just because someone calls a situation "gay" doesn't mean they're against people that are gay. The dictionary meaning of a word =/= the usage of the word in context and in the current times. If words always stayed true, grotesque would still refer to french caves/cave paintings.

Respect is a funny concept also, since you bring it up. Just because something exists, doesn't earn it automatic respect. Same for people. Same for concepts and ideas.  We live in this era of "respect my beliefs! all beliefs should be honored and respected" Well, no. not all beliefs should be respected. Not all concepts should be respected. Not all people should be respected. Trump is the President of our country, do you think he should earn respect simply because he is president? If your answer is the same as mine, a "Hell fucking no", lets go to the next example...
How about Nazi Germany? "All people that are not blue eyed, white, blonde hair, and catholic... should be cleansed of this earth" Should that concept be respected? If it is the same as mine, a "for fucks sake, why would anyone think that is ok?", lets go to one of the points I'm trying to make.
While Nazi germany is a huge stretch from "don't say these words because it hurts people's feelings", it is similar. It is a small stepping stone in that direction. Once we start getting towards the point of censorship, like this overly politically correct age has become, it gets to the point of a police state, in a sense. It's already gotten to that point in a few cases and communities. People are too offended to let the other world view let their voice be heard. You see that in Answers in Genesis. You see that on Lacie Green's channel. You see it on social media, when someone is a Trump supporter and they outcast their family and friends that were Hillary supporters... or the flip side.... actually, ESPECIALLY the flip side, where Hillary supporters outcast their family and friends that voted for Trump.
I hate slippery slope arguments, but this is a case where it seems appropriate and the slope has already shown itself to be very slippery.

That all said... I love this extra PC age. I love provoking. I love seeing how things and people tick. I love making them tick. Words that are not off limits do not have as much power as words that are, so thank you SJWs for giving the non SJWs so much power.

Shiranu

#2

Edited to remove unnecessary bits.

QuoteWhatever the list of words we "can't say" or shouldn't say changes to is unimportant and trivial.

HOLD THE PHONE I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU! Infact I even said so in the first post...

It shouldn't be about what you "cant say", I agree that is a stupid argument. What it should be about is what you "should" say, what is being a decent human being and what is not. Unfortunately we live in a world where people can't just be told, "Yeah, that's just what a decent human being would do... respect someone else's decision that effects them in no other way than, 'omg you had to say him instead of her!'".

It IS stupid that we have to discuss what words can and can't be said, because this shit should be so obvious that we don't even need this discussion.


QuoteSame for people.

Respect is what makes the world work, not constantly tearing people apart and only showing decency when it is convenient for you. If you have no intention to retard human progress, then you should treat every living being with respect until they break it.

You then compare, "Please respect my gender which effects no one but me." to, "Please, respect my belief that I should be allowed to harm people."

QuoteThat all said... I love this extra PC age. I love provoking. I love seeing how things and people tick. I love making them tick.

And this is your fundamental flaw; you want to act like you are doing this for altruistic reasons, of protecting speech... but all you are doing is being intentionally dense to create more negativity. You dissected the word retarded, so you should know what I think of that, and that anyone not so emotionally invested as you in the subject thinks of that.


QuoteWords that are not off limits do not have as much power as words that are, so thank you SJWs for giving the non SJWs so much power.

And again, the majority of those words are derogatory terms. So don't thank "us", thank the LGBT community, thank people of colour, that you are intentionally using derogatory terms referring to them just for your own kicks.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Don't blame words, they are innocent, like guns.  Blame the people who use words, who use guns.  Blame the assholes out there ... and respect them?  Well yes, we need to respect them, or we have no self respect, because we are assholes too, especially the self-righteous assholes.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hijiri Byakuren

What kind of retard faggot actually believes this gay hippy shit?
See what I did there?
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

widdershins

Interesting discussion.  I never associated today's PC "offensive words" with the "naughty words" of the past, but yes, I do see the connection.

I do have one observation, though.  Even those saying that we should "be respectful" only apply that "respect" to certain groups, usually those viewed as historically downtrodden.  You can't say "retarded" because it offends MR people (MR is the new term, or it was "last week".  I think it might have been replaced again.  Guess what it means...)  But technically, it offends people who know or care about MR people more than anything.  And I don't know what the hell happened with the word queer or what a "queer" is these days, but I do know there are some people who associate with being "queer", but it used to be a slur.

But there are other groups of people we tend to care nothing about, especially here.  We don't care what they want to be called.  We'll call them what we think they are, in our eyes.  We've had the discussion many times her.  I am talking, of course, about agnostics.  I've never seen a discussion about the PC way to address them.  Even those who try to be PC aren't bothered telling them they are atheist, not agnostic.  Not that it's in any way wrong.  By all the gods of technicality, they are atheists.  But it often offends the one who identifies as an agnostic, and we don't care because they are not one of the "special groups" we can't offend.

That was the first thing that came to mind when reading this, and it fits in so well with what has been said.  Agnostics don't make it to "special" status because they're not a large enough group to register on the public radar, maybe?  And if they did much of America would hate them and not care about offending them anyway, I suppose.  But as to how this fits in with what has been said here, they don't deserve "respect" because society hasn't decided that we must respect them like it has with the other groups.  Political correctness has everything to do with the "political" part and very little to do with the "correctness" part because it's only politicized groups we have to address "correctly".

I am definitely thinking in new ways thanks to the first three posts, and it's fascinating to contemplate.  Thanks, guys.
This sentence is a lie...

Mermaid

I find the term "PC" sort of annoying. People should use polite language and diplomacy with each other. That hasn't changed since the beginning of time. You can say what you want. That doesn't mean you won't get any backlash, or that people should stop being "sensitive" for your sake.

We live in a time of ridiculously fast and intimate communication. I you don't want to be diplomatic, that's your prerogative. Being surprised by people voicing their offense is naive.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

SGOS

#7
Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 07:18:28 AM
Don't blame words, they are innocent, like guns.  Blame the people who use words, who use guns.  Blame the assholes out there ... and respect them?  Well yes, we need to respect them, or we have no self respect, because we are assholes too, especially the self-righteous assholes.

There was the time when the psychological definition of "retarded" was replaced because the originally inoffensive word became offensive.  "OK, good enough," I thought, "We won't use the word in psychological evaluations or in public, so as not to be offensive."  But it's not about the word itself, which was neutral to begin with, until it got to be overused and became a descriptor of being "stupid" and used to describe the population at large for doing stupid things.  This was caused by people, not the word itself.  People, being the assholes they are, I wondered when a politically correct replacement word itself would become an offensive slur.

I wasn't sure which word would become the new slur.  I think one replacement is now cropping up, however.  Kids with learning disabilities are placed in special education classes, where they are given an environment to succeed in.  An inoffensive replacement that is now rearing it's head on occasion to degrade others is the word "special":  "Oh, he's special," or "What are you?  Special?"  It has not received wide recognition as yet, and I don't know how well it will catch on as a slur.  A better slur may rise out of the human cesspool, but at some point we may have to replace "special education" with something more politically correct.

Special education is offensive to both kids and parents, not all, but some.  Not because the label is bad, but because parents and kids feel stigmatized by having their kids in special classes. 

In high school (back in what now seems like the dark ages), I was correctly identified as having difficulties in reading, and was offered a special class which was a newly created pilot project to see if a special class might correct reading difficulties in certain kids.  An English teacher who found himself responsible for notifying me that this class would be available to me if I wanted to take it the next year (my third year of high school), was the biggest asshole I ever had for a teacher.  He had continually upbraided me in class in front of the other students the entire year.  Someone must have directed him to offer this class privately and do so compassionately.  I still respect him for the way he behaved in that situation.  I think I even thanked him for suggesting the class.   Hell, I already knew I had reading difficulties.  I knew that since third grade.  There was no stigma in it for me.  No one talked about, or for that matter offered to help until that time.

The next year I took the class as an elective, along with 8 other students.  Actually, all of us in that class were very interested in the opportunity.  I remember having a substitute teacher one day, who came to the class cold and had little idea what was going on.  Trying to get her feet on the ground with a befuddled tone, she queried the class, "What is this class for?"  And one girl in the class quickly blurted out, "Its for dummies!"  All eight of us started laughing, and the substitute gave a subdued chuckle, while trying hard not to laugh with us.  No one took offense, however.  We all knew what the score was and knew we needed help.

Incidentally, my standardized reading score went from something like the 15th percentile to somewhere in the 90th percentile by the end of the year.  I didn't keep in touch with most of those kids, but the next year in Chemistry class, I had an opportunity to ask one of them (who was on his way out of the Chem class before mine) what he got for a grade that quarter.  He told me he got an A in Chemistry. I think that special reading class turned us all around in every subject outside of PE.

No matter how helpful and compassionate we try to be by using the correct words, some people are going to turn something about it into a slur, because it's just too "juicy" to pass up.

Baruch

I wouldn't diss PC words ... if the PC folks would back it up with more than lip service.  Fact is, the PC folks need downtrodden people to push their political agendas.  If African-Americans for example didn't exist, it would be necessary for the PC folks to invent them.

I have met homeless people on the street, and anytime I haven't done more than I did ... I don't feel good about myself.  I don't think I have done my job if I have avoided insulting them, or wishing them a happy good morning.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

PickelledEggs

#9
You presume too much of me... yet again... and you confuse my enjoyment and interest in linguistics and social psychology for emotional investment.

Sent from your mom.

widdershins

Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 01:26:52 PM
I wouldn't diss PC words ... if the PC folks would back it up with more than lip service.  Fact is, the PC folks need downtrodden people to push their political agendas.  If African-Americans for example didn't exist, it would be necessary for the PC folks to invent them.

I have met homeless people on the street, and anytime I haven't done more than I did ... I don't feel good about myself.  I don't think I have done my job if I have avoided insulting them, or wishing them a happy good morning.
What "political agenda" would this be if "different people" didn't exist?  I can only assume you mean getting elected or something, but I'm honestly not sure.  Now that I think of it, "political agenda" may just be a meaningless buzz word.
This sentence is a lie...

Baruch

Quote from: widdershins on December 20, 2016, 02:56:08 PM
What "political agenda" would this be if "different people" didn't exist?  I can only assume you mean getting elected or something, but I'm honestly not sure.  Now that I think of it, "political agenda" may just be a meaningless buzz word.

In that case, Democrat is a meaningless buzz word ... so they should just disband their party.  Same thing with the Republicans.  The point of PC is to make expressing non-PC ideas impossible or to make them unthinkable.  That is Newspeak.  That is what the R&D Hell-spawn are after.  The Party will tell you what to think, and how to say it, write it.  No thanks .. the nukes can't fall soon enough on such people. ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

widdershins

Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 06:28:19 PM
In that case, Democrat is a meaningless buzz word ... so they should just disband their party.  Same thing with the Republicans.  The point of PC is to make expressing non-PC ideas impossible or to make them unthinkable.  That is Newspeak.  That is what the R&D Hell-spawn are after.  The Party will tell you what to think, and how to say it, write it.  No thanks .. the nukes can't fall soon enough on such people. ;-)
I was really asking.  And I still don't know.  Well, maybe.  The political agenda is control?  Faux News is way better at control than political correctness.  That's why about 25% of the people associate as Republican but they still have both houses of Congress and the presidency right now.
This sentence is a lie...

TomFoolery

#13
Quote from: Shiranu on December 20, 2016, 02:49:27 AM
I feel like this shouldn't even have to be a discussion... forget about if it's right or wrong, stupid or not... it's not a matter of any of that, it's about basic respect. If someone asks you to call them a certain way, to not address their sexuality in a demeaning tone, whatever... respecting that is just the sign of someone who was brought up with a little bit of respect for their fellow human. There is literally almost nothing that could inconvenience you less than changing what words you use to describe something, and you show respect and compassion to another living being. There is no reason that should be controversial.

But here's the main point of difference.

If someone asks me to address them a certain way as an individual, I'm more than happy to. If someone asks me to use certain pronouns or not use a certain term, fine. You're right, it doesn't inconvenience me.

When it starts to become a problem is when all of these individual preferences are supposed to be considered the "norm." There are now far too many "norms" for it to make any fucking sense anymore. What one person prefers, another person finds offensive. Take the term "disabled" for example.

Most people with disabilities don't mind being called disabled. Yet I had to go through sensitivity training at my job to make sure to call them "persons with a disability." Ok, whatever. But THEN you have a handful of activists who prefer the terminology "differently abled." Ok, so now on the euphemism treadmill, I'm torn between saying disabled, person with a disability, and differently abled. What am I to do?

You would think I should just go for the "least offensive" term "differently abled," but a lot of people with disabilities find it offensive. As a step mother to a child with autism, that term gets on my last fucking nerve. My step daughter isn't "differently abled" - she's 13, smears shit on walls, pisses in her pants, screams when she's even slightly agitated, wipes boogers on people, and can't count change. She's disabled. I accept that.

So there are a lot of disabled people who find the term "disabled" offensive. Now I'm stuck every time I encounter a person in a wheelchair exactly as to what the fuck I'm supposed to say so as to be "generally inclusive, non-offensive, kind and compassionate" to a person.

So this is a prime example of how everyone not wanting their feelings to get hurt and projecting those wishes upon society just ends up with a faster moving euphemism treadmill and a growing minefield of offense that becomes more difficult to navigate with each passing year.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

AllPurposeAtheist

All respects to the term respect, respect is earned and not just bestowed upon us at birth. When someone tells me they demand respect it's usually the last thing I'm going to give them. First you have to earn the respect you desire through your actions and words you use and realize that at any time you can say or do things that will destroy any respect you ever had in the past.
Political correctness is just a made up notion that has more or less morphed into an insult. It's to say that you're using language that may or may not be useful, but I disagree so you're being politically correct and by default wrong and just about any language anyone uses that someone else disagrees with can be painted as some nefarious agenda under the guise of political correctness. It's a meaningless term and almost always used to describe what is perceived as the nefarious liberal plot to subugate the human race in some ridiculous world that doesn't actually exist.
You want respect? Earn it and realize that at any time you can and very likely will lose it intentionally or not.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.