Atheists help! Fear of hell:what are the odds that this story was actually true?

Started by Murat_Devekusu, December 18, 2016, 04:51:09 PM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 20, 2017, 10:22:45 AM
Well Well, the whole thing started because some broad was hungry for fresh fruit and if you don't believe it you're most certainly going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever x1000.. This is why we should be allowed to sumarily execute women for entering the produce section of grocery stores. After all, just looking at this image will tempt you beyond all reason. Yup, definitely sinful thoughts swirling around in my head.. Forgive me father for I am a sinner.


HEY! STOP THAT or you'll go blind!
Remember, not only blind but hair will grow on your hand.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Unbeliever

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on January 20, 2017, 10:22:45 AM
Well Well, the whole thing started because some broad was hungry for fresh fruit and if you don't believe it you're most certainly going to burn forever and ever and ever and ever x1000..


Except that, according to the Bible, in Deuteronomy 24:16, God doesn't blame us for what Adam did:
QuoteThe fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Oh, wait, the Bible also says this in Deuteronomy 5:9:
QuoteThou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,


But even that's not forever [and ever]! 3 or 4 generations, and yet we're all born under original sin!?


I'm just not convinced...


God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on January 20, 2017, 04:02:08 PM

Except that, according to the Bible, in Deuteronomy 24:16, God doesn't blame us for what Adam did:

Oh, wait, the Bible also says this in Deuteronomy 5:9:

But even that's not forever [and ever]! 3 or 4 generations, and yet we're all born under original sin!?


I'm just not convinced...

Thus the belief that there was the original Deuteronomy, and the revision of Deuteronomy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deuteronomy

The original in late 7th century BCE, the revision in the late 6th century BCE.  The most important part in rabbinic Judaism, being Deut 6:4.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

doorknob

My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!

Mike Cl

Quote from: doorknob on January 22, 2017, 06:25:14 AM
My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!
I am sorry to hear that you still fear hell.  I suppose it is like when a tune is stuck in your head and you can't stop playing it over and over even tho it is driving you nuts. I don't know what to say, really.  I eventually lose that tune by ignoring it by becoming so absorbed in some task or other.  Hell is a bit stronger than a tune, I suppose. :)

Maybe you dispel your fear by doing research on hell.  I don't mean read a few internet blogs or pages.  I mean reading books by the dozen; keep notes--make it a personal homework assignment.  That way you will 'know' where the various types of hell come from, which religions say what about it.  In that way, you will rub your nose in the fact that hell is a story--well, many stories all contorted into what christians call hell; and even each sect within christianity has a different hell. Maybe something like that would work.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Quote from: godmessenger on January 18, 2017, 11:15:54 PM
We are also spiritual creatures,
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Baruch

Quote from: doorknob on January 22, 2017, 06:25:14 AM
My personal experience is that after being indoctrinated I still fear hell. I know hell is not real but the evil that religion is has drilled it in to me and now I can't shake it. I share your pain in that regard but I know that the bible is 100% bull shit and not real. Why should I trust people from the middle east as being the authority on religion? How does one determine what is the true religion I mean there are so many of them!

Because it is so dry there, and caring for mixed flocks of goats and sheep, and living in tents (bedouin) makes them experts on G-d ;-)  But in early cities, you had the temple prostitutes of Ishtar ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: aitm on January 22, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.

I keep my black cat on my good side, just in case ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: aitm on January 22, 2017, 09:21:39 AM
Bullshit, we are superstitious creatures. Thats why we talk to our cars, pretend the possessions of our ancestors have special powers, avoid particular "curses", consult the starts, pierce our bodies and all kinds of assorted whack-a-doddlery. The invention of the gods is pretty well chronicled, try reading a real book twit.

Speak for yourself, doggie-friend (I'm a cat type myself).  I have no superstition, don't talk to my car, attend my ancestors (OK Mom's ashes are on a bookshelf and I'm waiting to be the last living child so I can dump them in the garden without annoying anyone)...  Yeah, I know you were speaking to someoe else, but I got this great response in my fingertips...  LOL!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 07:08:51 PM
Just don't dump Mom in the cat box, it is disrespectful ;-))

Mom loved cats.  And she isn't around to care.

Seriously, at SOME point, no one cares anymore.  But what is that point?  My Will says spread me on the garden.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on February 05, 2017, 02:02:16 PM
Mom loved cats.  And she isn't around to care.

Seriously, at SOME point, no one cares anymore.  But what is that point?  My Will says spread me on the garden.

It is you, or is it peat moss ... well if your name isn't Pete ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on February 05, 2017, 02:26:56 PM
It is you, or is it peat moss ... well if your name isn't Pete ...

Cremation is simply more efficient.  Gets the nutrients back in the ground faster than box burials designed to prevent it.  Not like I'll need my body after my mind stops.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Unbeliever

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the concept of hell, as the Christians have used it, comes from Zoroastrianism.


Here's a link about it:

Hell-On-Line
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on February 11, 2017, 05:04:22 PM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the concept of hell, as the Christians have used it, comes from Zoroastrianism.


Here's a link about it:

Hell-On-Line

Yes, but multiple origins.  I have a beautiful full color reproduction of the Egyptian Book of the Dead.  The Greco-Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians etc.  The most recent non-Abrahamic influence that helped create the Abrahamic religions, came via Zoroastrianism.  Zoroaster was a bit like an early Persian version of Buddha.  It isn't clear when Zoroaster lived (two major theories), or exactly when the Buddha lived (two major theories), but there was definitely a Zoroastrian cult in the midst of Persian polytheism in 500 BCE ... and Buddhism in the midst of Hindu polytheism in 300 BCE.  Zoroastrianism had a direct impact on Islam, thru Persian influence in S Arabia ... and indirectly thru Jewish-Christian influence in N Arabia and Ethiopia.  Zoroastrianism barely survived the Muslim conquest, though the Byzantines held up a bit better.  Language matters .. Arabic conquest did best, and held on longest, where the local language was already Afro-Semitic.  The major breach in the Caliphate occurred precisely because of the non-Semitic Persians and Indians ... and push back from the non-Semitic Europeans in Spain and the Balkans.  The advent of the Turks and Mongols acted as wild cards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell also The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics by Elaine Pagels.

I was just reading the Aeneid by Virgil ... where Aeneas enters Hades thru the caves of the Cumean Sybil, outside modern Naples.  This is a pretty universal concept ... an Elysium for good people, is relatively less common.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.