Author Topic: Start putting chips in people ...  (Read 13405 times)

Offline Baruch

Start putting chips in people ...
« on: December 14, 2016, 07:07:57 AM »
Hr 4919 overwhelmingly passed the House 346 to 66 ... authorizing chipping of autistic and Alzheimers patients.  Of course this will never be abused by the police (cough).
שלום

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 10:28:04 AM »
Title III, Section 301, paragraph 6:
NON-INVASIVE AND NON-PERMANENT.—The term “non-invasive and non-permanent” means, with regard to any technology or device, that the procedure to install the technology or device does not create an external or internal marker or implant a device or other trackable items.

Title III, Section 302, subsection (a), paragraph 1:
IN GENERAL.—Not later than 120 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human Services and leading research, advocacy, self-advocacy, and service organizations, shall establish standards and best practices relating to the use of non-invasive and non-permanent tracking technology, where a guardian or parent, in consultation with the individual’s health care provider, has determined that a non-invasive and non-permanent tracking device is the least restrictive alternative, to locate individuals as described in subsection (a)(2) of section 240001 of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (42 U.S.C. 14181), as added by this Act.

Title III, Section 302, subsection (d), paragraph 2:
VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.—Nothing in this Act may be construed to require that a parent or guardian use a tracking device to monitor the location of a child or adult under that parent or guardian’s supervision if the parent or guardian does not believe that the use of such device is necessary or in the interest of the child or adult under supervision.

This law explicitly states that it is not about "marking people", such as a brand or tattoo to identify them, or "implanting" any permanent technology.  It's also completely voluntary.  And the guardians or parents of these people ALREADY have the right to have GPS tracking devices implanted.  Hell, some parents do it with their kids so they can find the kid if they ever get lost or kidnapped.  The person's "guardian" has all the rights a parent would over a child.  I know of one case where a guardian didn't trust medicine and opted for electroshock therapy instead, which I didn't even think was a thing any more.
This sentence is a lie...

Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 10:30:35 AM »
Quote
(2) VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.—Nothing in this Act may be construed to require that a parent or guardian use a tracking device to monitor the location of a child or adult under that parent or guardian’s supervision if the parent or guardian does not believe that the use of such device is necessary or in the interest of the child or adult under supervision.

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ETA: Ninja'd...
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 10:32:32 AM by PopeyesPappy »
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Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 11:00:34 AM »
In a related topic.

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Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 12:38:34 PM »
Yes. Put chips in people who cannot take care of themselves.

One of the elders of the extended family got lost and was never found. He had alzheimers. This was 55 years ago. If we have the technology now and if goes OK there it will come here soon.

Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 12:43:36 PM »
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Hr 4919 overwhelmingly passed the House 346 to 66 ... authorizing chipping of autistic and Alzheimers patients.  Of course this will never be abused by the police (cough).

Could you please explain how will the police abuse this? How will the police abuse chipped autism (I mean people with the scale that can't survive without help of others)  or alzheimers patients?

Don't you think abusing would be much easier without these people being protect in some way? What do you think is going to happen to this people when  they put a chip in them?

I swear some people are living in Hollywood movies.


Offline Baruch

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2016, 01:00:16 PM »
The police abuse everything in the US ... same as Turkey.  The police state only works in your favor, if you are the police.  However, having removable bracelets for tracking Alzheimer patients or others (that is the danger) ... would be humane.  But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.
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Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2016, 01:04:59 PM »
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But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.

Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.

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Offline Baruch

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2016, 01:10:48 PM »
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Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.

Good question.  In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative?  We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).

Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office.  If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS.  Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).
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Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 01:18:23 PM »
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The police abuse everything in the US ... same as Turkey.

This is not an argument. How are they going to abuse these people, just because they have chips?

How is the police going to abuse a chip system for people in need?

Quote
The police state only works in your favor, if you are the police.


This is not an argument.

Quote
However, having removable bracelets for tracking Alzheimer patients or others (that is the danger) ... would be humane.  But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.

Link? The problem with removable bracelets are that they can be removed. Probably could be damaged too.

If you are concerned with that people cannot have any affect over something that will be in their body, yes that is the idea. This should be for people who does not have the mental fortitude or the mental facility to take care of themselves. Which makes them VERY open to every kind of abuse when they are not under protection, even from their next of kin. I am not talking about people who just needs some little help and care, but people who cannot survive on their own in a house or street with simple daily stuff.


If you have a good argument about this, I am all ears, I can change my opinion any time. If your whole point is based on some Orwellian Hollywood dysutopia of 'chips', don't bother. 


Offline PopeyesPappy

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 01:25:56 PM »
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Good question.  In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative?  We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).

Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office.  If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS.  Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).

Have you read the bill, or are you just repeating something you heard about it on some conspiracy website? I ask because what I read said it was a program to supply grants to local agencies to study different methods of voluntary non-permanent tracking devices for a vary narrowly defined subset of people. People who are at risk by the way. There is nothing in there that even remotely resembles what you are saying.
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Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 01:33:28 PM »
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Good question.  In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative?  We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).

Irrelevant. Because this is not about people in hospitals being treated to get well or cured. They can certainly be in a hospital when they need it, not in this context I mean.

Quote
Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office.  If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS.  Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).

Trump cannot determine that if someone can legitimately hold office or not, because he is too busy to determine that he himself can't.

And again the irrelevant bullshit meter goes mad.


Offline Atheon

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2016, 01:38:14 PM »
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In a related topic.

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I hate to be a heartless hard-ass about this, but I will be coldly truthful based on my own experience having a parent deteriorate, disappear mentally, become totally incapacitated and mindless, and eventually die a cruel, slow death due to this most horrible of horrible diseases: the police did the man and his family a big favor. They spared him the fear, confusion and suffering that goes with the disease, and the family the pain, heartache, constant exhaustion and financial burden involved in being caretakers.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 01:43:22 PM by Atheon »
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Offline drunkenshoe

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2016, 01:41:57 PM »
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I hate to be a heartless hard-ass about this, but I will be coldly truthful based on my own experience having a parent deteriorate, disappear mentally, become totally incapacitated and mindless, and eventually die a cruel, slow death due to this most horrible of horrible diseases: the police did the man and his family a big favor.

I don't think it is heartless at all. On the contrary.

But needlessly to say, it would be much better, if we could take better care of these people instead of shooting them. Basically, that's what civilisation is.

Offline Hydra009

Re: Start putting chips in people ...
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2016, 04:00:58 PM »
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Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.
Asking Brauch to support his statements is like asking a barnacle to fly.  Even if it knew how, it couldn't do it.

 

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