Alabama May Have Botched an Execution

[SGOS]

Well, they didn't really botch it.  They did manage to kill the guy, but it took a half an hour, 13 minutes of which the convict appeared to be suffering.  I think we need to get rid of the death penalty, although it's not something I lose sleep over.  It's mostly just a circus, anyway, and from what I keep hearing, it doesn't seem to prevent people from committing murder. 

At a minimum, they ought to do it efficiently.  How hard can it be to kill a guy?  My dog was administered a massive dose of barbiturates, and appeared to go from fully conscious to dead in roughly 5 seconds.  If we can do that for animals, why do we have to do the complicated 3 cocktail drug thing with a crappy history of getting the job done effectively, and has to be administered by some protocol which seems much too easy for the execution squad to fuck up.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/09/504952541/alabama-inmate-coughed-heaved-for-about-13-minutes-during-execution

The execution took place late Thursday night local time at the Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore, Ala. Multiple journalists who witnessed the execution, including reporters from The Associated Press, The Chicago Tribune and AL.com, reported it took about 34 minutes for Smith to die.

AL.com described Smith's death:



"During 13 minutes of the execution, from about 10:34 to 10:47, Smith appeared to be struggling for breath and heaved and coughed and clenched his left fist after apparently being administered the first drug in the three-drug combination. At times his left eye also appeared to be slightly open.

"A Department of Corrections captain performed two consciousness checks before they proceeded with administering the next two drugs to stop his breathing and heart.

"The consciousness tests consist of the corrections officer calling out Smith's name, brushing his eyebrows back, and pinching him under his left arm.

"Smith continued to heave, gasp and cough after the first test was performed at 10:37 p.m. and again at 10:47 p.m.. After the second one, Smith's right arm and hand moved."

[Solomon Zorn]

At least it's not the electric-chair anymore. The definition of cruel and unusual punishment. Has to be a more humane way.

[SGOS]

At least it's not the electric-chair anymore. The definition of cruel and unusual punishment. Has to be a more humane way.

They used to hang convicts, but with the advent of electricity, someone thought, "Hey, this would be a good way to execute convicts.  No muss no fuss.  Just run a massive electric current through them."  This was  more humane.  Then when that turned out to be ugly as an occasional  convict's head would catch fire while he was convulsing, someone thought.  Let's just pump deadly chemicals into him, and see how that works.

We just keep getting more and more humane as we concoct new ways to snuff people.  We are a civilized society, are we not?  What's next?

[Atheon]

The problem for the execution industry is that most drug companies don't want their products used for executions. So they have trouble sourcing chemicals of death. This leads to a slim choice of poisons they can use, increasing the chances of botched executions.

I think the death penalty should be completely and utterly abolished. There is no way to kill someone humanely. Killing is inhumane, no matter how it's done.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

I said this before and laid out my reasons, but nitrogen or a noble gas. It's cheap, painless, and easy. Against the state having the option of killing people, but if we're gonna do it might as well use the most painless method scientifically possible. People have been accidentally killed by noble gases because they're cause no pain at any concentration and they're odorless, so they never have a chance to move out of the area.

[Hydra009]

The problem for the execution industry is that most drug companies don't want their products used for executions. So they have trouble sourcing chemicals of death. This leads to a slim choice of poisons they can use, increasing the chances of botched executions.

They could always try my vegan mother in-law's cooking.  :P

I think the death penalty should be completely and utterly abolished. There is no way to kill someone humanely. Killing is inhumane, no matter how it's done.

Agreed.  It'd make for less of a circus, too.  And an awfully expensive circus at that.

[GrinningYMIR]

Wouldn't just shorting him in the back of the head be the most efficient and humane way of doing it? *boom dead*


If you're gonna kill him then kill him quick and efficient not pretty

[Baruch]

Electrocution as an execution method, was invented by Thomas Edison and financed by J P Morgan, to try to stop Tesla from promoting AC power to electrify the US.  It was Edison's least ethical experience.  The first guy, they had to experiment with multiple voltages and currents until they killed them .. the official witnesses vomited at the sight.  Nitrogen gas sounds humane.

[Shiranu]

While I am against the death penalty because of how many innocent people are killed (and how often their race plays a part in that), I am not opposed to confirmed murderers (like Reed or whatever that kid who shot the church in NC to start a race war, Brevik, or war criminals) being uninformed they received the death penalty, walking them down a prison hall into a room with a drain and putting a bullet in the back of their skull before they have a moment to think about it.

We know they did it, they don't suffer and there is no time to think, "Oh, I am about to die.". One of the arguments is, "Oh, if you throw them in prison they will regret what they did!". Like fuck they will, they are monsters who thought what they did was right.

And the reason we don't do bullets is not for the victim, it's for the man who has to shoot thems sake.

[Mike Cl]

Guillotine

[PopeyesPappy]

Fuck Ronald Bert Smith, Jr. I don't know if I ever met his victim 24 year old Casey Wilson, but this happened in the neighborhood where I grew up. I definitely shopped at the store where the murder took place. It's still there to this day.

Smith shot Wilson, a new father, in the arm then locked him in the bathroom while he tried to open the safe. When he couldn't get it open he went back to the bathroom, and shot Wilson in the head. I'm having a hard time feeling bad for him even though the unconscious POS struggled to breath and twitched a couple of times before he died. 

[Shiranu]

Guillotine

I am okay with this.

[Shiranu]

Fuck Ronald Bert Smith, Jr. I don't know if I ever met his victim 24 year old Casey Wilson, but this happened in the neighborhood where I grew up. I definitely shopped at the store where the murder took place. It's still there to this day.

Smith shot Wilson, a new father, in the arm then locked him in the bathroom while he tried to open the safe. When he couldn't get it open he went back to the bathroom, and shot Wilson in the head. I'm having a hard time feeling bad for him even though the unconscious POS struggled to breath and twitched a couple of times before he died. 

I think they definitely get alot better than they deserve, and I think that's the point; that we won't stoop to their level (or stoop at all).

[Hydra009]

I think they definitely get alot better than they deserve, and I think that's the point; that we won't stoop to their level (or stoop at all).

QFT.  Please spread the word to the retributive justice people.  No one gains anything when two people each lose an eye.

[SGOS]

While I am against the death penalty because of how many innocent people are killed (and how often their race plays a part in that), I am not opposed to [executing] confirmed murderers

Virtually, every innocent convicted of murder is believed to be a confirmed murderer by someone or other, including the jury that convicts him.  I don't know how any individual, even one present at the crime, can arbitrarily make that call 100% of the time with 100% accuracy.  Saying the death penalty is NOT OK, except when you believe it's OK is exactly what is at stake here.  No one is omniscient.  Everyone is fallible, even when they are sure they are not.  Judges are fallible, as are juries that convict.   A jury is not required to confirm a murder.  They are presented evidence, and each juror renders an opinion, not absolute knowledge, just an opinion and nothing more.  Their opinion is influenced by many factors, not the least of which are personal bias or a sense of indignation or sympathy toward the accused. 

And it works in reverse too.  Sometimes a rightfully guilty murderer is set free, either by a jury, judge, or technical oversight, and this is received with great jubilation by some, while others seethe with indignation over what they see as a failure of justice.  This is not any more or less fair than the previous scenario, where an innocent is executed for a crime he did not commit.

The justice system is either fair or unfair, but never fair or unfair because we personally approve of the outcome.  When you approve of an execution, you do so not because you actually know everything about the events you did not witness.  Perhaps it provides a sense of someone getting what they deserve, or maybe what his race deserves, or maybe it fulfills some other need, but it never guarantees truth.  In the end, sometimes innocent blood is shed, but sometimes it's not.  Are we OK with that, or would we be willing to dial it down a notch?