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Just another lone wolf?

Started by pr126, November 29, 2016, 02:00:10 AM

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pr126

Sorry Shiranu, you are mistaking me for someone who does give a shit what you think. I do not.







FaithIsFilth

Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 29, 2016, 09:59:13 AM
Allah isn't real, but belief isn't the point, behavior is. If individuals can't control their behavior due to religious beliefs, political beliefs or mental illness then society will use law enforcement to force them behave or remove them from society.

I don't know why you keep defending Islam.
If they can't control their behaviour? The guy wrote on Facebook that he wants peace with the West. None of the big politicians in the West claim to want peace in the region (Not even Mr. Liberal Bernie Sanders. He loves war), so if what you want is for these Muslims to control their behaviour, then that's going to take a little effort on the part of the West. He was clear that he wants peace. The West does not. It makes little sense to me to put all of the blame on the one's that claim to want the peace. If you want the bodies of yours to stop piling up in the West, then the leaders in the West are going to have to stop drafting the terrorist attack victims to die for pipelines and other shit that matters more to even Mr. Liberal Bernie Sanders, than the dead children do.

The cold reality is that pipelines are far more valuable than human lives. The Westerners killed in terrorist attacks don't matter, and the Muslims killed in the wars don't matter. If anyone needs to control their behaviour, it's the West. When the West does what it does, you're guaranteed to get a certain percentage of Muslims that are going to take the fight back to you. Cause and effect. You are asking for the wrong people to control themselves. Either they do that, or they lock all of the Western Muslims up in camps so they can't hurt you, or you suck it up and accept that this is never going to change because human life doesn't mean as much as you think it does. I've chosen to go with option three.

Shiranu

Quote from: pr126 on November 30, 2016, 10:35:40 AM
Sorry Shiranu, you are mistaking me for someone who does give a shit what you think. I do not.








Hey, you make the claim that Muslim terrorists should be allowed to have guns so I'm not surprised you would close your ears and brain to someone who has actually put some thought into what they are saying.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 01, 2016, 09:57:46 PM
If they can't control their behaviour? The guy wrote on Facebook that he wants peace with the West. None of the big politicians in the West claim to want peace in the region (Not even Mr. Liberal Bernie Sanders. He loves war), so if what you want is for these Muslims to control their behaviour, then that's going to take a little effort on the part of the West. He was clear that he wants peace. The West does not. It makes little sense to me to put all of the blame on the one's that claim to want the peace. If you want the bodies of yours to stop piling up in the West, then the leaders in the West are going to have to stop drafting the terrorist attack victims to die for pipelines and other shit that matters more to even Mr. Liberal Bernie Sanders, than the dead children do.

The cold reality is that pipelines are far more valuable than human lives. The Westerners killed in terrorist attacks don't matter, and the Muslims killed in the wars don't matter. If anyone needs to control their behaviour, it's the West. When the West does what it does, you're guaranteed to get a certain percentage of Muslims that are going to take the fight back to you. Cause and effect. You are asking for the wrong people to control themselves. Either they do that, or they lock all of the Western Muslims up in camps so they can't hurt you, or you suck it up and accept that this is never going to change because human life doesn't mean as much as you think it does. I've chosen to go with option three.

You have a narrow and false view of world relations...  If Moslems stopped having this idea of Europeans as Crusaders (and I will remind you that Moslems attacked The European Byzantine Empire, Italy, and Spain before they even knew you EXISTED first) there wouldn't be much of a problem. 

*I* don't give a damn about your religion any more than I care about Christianity, Judaism, or Hinduism.  They are all EQUALLY silly to me.  So no special prejudice to Moslems.

Other than that you are all acting like whining little brats...  Like the others.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Shiranu

QuoteIf Moslems stopped having this idea of Europeans as Crusaders (and I will remind you that Moslems attacked The European Byzantine Empire, Italy, and Spain before they even knew you EXISTED first) there wouldn't be much of a problem. 

If Europeans (and Americans) stopped having this idea as "saviours of the world" and having the right to overthrow democracies and condemn millions of people to oppressive regimes to protect our geopolitical and economic interests, there wouldn't be much of a problem.

You cant accuse someone of having a narrow and false view of the world and then say most of the blame rests on one group's shoulders, and the above includes problems that exist beyond the Muslim world and causes very similar reactions regardless of what faith the victims are.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on December 02, 2016, 03:37:55 AM
If Europeans (and Americans) stopped having this idea as "saviours of the world" and having the right to overthrow democracies and condemn millions of people to oppressive regimes to protect our geopolitical and economic interests, there wouldn't be much of a problem.

You cant accuse someone of having a narrow and false view of the world and then say most of the blame rests on one group's shoulders, and the above includes problems that exist beyond the Muslim world and causes very similar reactions regardless of what faith the victims are.

Um, you are comparing recent world politics to the ancient hatred of "crusaders" that moslem countries claim.  That's not the same thing.  I was mentioning the basis for moslem adherents claiming "crusaders" were all in the wrong in the 1200s  to 1400s (or some dates like that). 

It is just that I get really tired of screaming moslems shouting about "crusaders" when they started it all.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Shiranu

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 04:39:25 AM
Um, you are comparing recent world politics to the ancient hatred of "crusaders" that moslem countries claim.  That's not the same thing.  I was mentioning the basis for moslem adherents claiming "crusaders" were all in the wrong in the 1200s  to 1400s (or some dates like that). 

It is just that I get really tired of screaming moslems shouting about "crusaders" when they started it all.

I'm sorry, but saying the Muslims started the Crusades is just factually wrong. And when you understand the reality that the Crusades were a political tool by the Vatican to try and expand their influence territorially (particularly by installing Western Empire troops in Constantinople), reign in war tribes turning against the Empire (becoming increasingly more problematic as the Empires' Northern Enemies were pacified) and take power over the increasingly strengthening French and English nobility that was no longer listening to the Vatican as well as a tool for said kings to increase their prestige and their war-chest as they pillaged minority villages and citizens (particularly Jewish citizens) on their route to the Middle East then you can see why the idea of the European Crusader is still very much a relevant thing for Muslims.

The Crusades had very little to do with the Muslims and far more to do with the political instability and power grab of the Western/HRE over the Byzantine empire. And if you look at the Crusades, 9 out of 10 times the Crusaders were fighting other Christians and harassing Jews rather than fighting Muslims.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on December 02, 2016, 05:10:52 AM
I'm sorry, but saying the Muslims started the Crusades is just factually wrong. And when you understand the reality that the Crusades were a political tool by the Vatican to try and expand their influence territorially (particularly by installing Western Empire troops in Constantinople), reign in war tribes turning against the Empire (becoming increasingly more problematic as the Empires' Northern Enemies were pacified) and take power over the increasingly strengthening French and English nobility that was no longer listening to the Vatican as well as a tool for said kings to increase their prestige and their war-chest as they pillaged minority villages and citizens (particularly Jewish citizens) on their route to the Middle East then you can see why the idea of the European Crusader is still very much a relevant thing for Muslims.

The Crusades had very little to do with the Muslims and far more to do with the political instability and power grab of the Western/HRE over the Byzantine empire. And if you look at the Crusades, 9 out of 10 times the Crusaders were fighting other Christians and harassing Jews rather than fighting Muslims.

Read more carefully.  I didn't say the moslems started the crusades.  I said they attacked christian Europe first.  Theres a BIG difference there.

And you need a history lesson...  In the 8th century, Europe was broken up into small principlaities with no standing armies..  The Vikings attacked from the north, the Moslems attacked from the east , south, and southwest.  Central Asians were attacking from the east.

It took 2 centuries, but Europeans started to get their act together.  The Angles in Briton organized armies and new weapons (the longbow).  The Franks organized under Charles's (culminating in Charlemagne).  in the late 1400s, the locals of Castile ans Aragon drove the moslems from what became Spain.  The valkan peoples drove the moslems out of eastern Europe. 

Having forced to become utter but skilled military thugs in defense, they decided on some revenge.  The crusades followed.  Bad logistical move, but religion causes stupidity.

The crusades, dumb as they were were a reaction to Viking and Moslem invasions.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 04:39:25 AM
Um, you are comparing recent world politics to the ancient hatred of "crusaders" that moslem countries claim.  That's not the same thing.  I was mentioning the basis for moslem adherents claiming "crusaders" were all in the wrong in the 1200s  to 1400s (or some dates like that). 

It is just that I get really tired of screaming moslems shouting about "crusaders" when they started it all.

They didn't start it ... are you Byzantine?  They attacked the Byzantine Empire, about 1350 years ago.  And the Byzantines were messing with them first, and the Romans before that and the Greeks before that and the Babylonians before that ....

Crusader is a slang term in modern Arabic ... doesn't mean what you think it means.  In actual Arabic they say "Franj" ... which is their mispronunciation of "Frank" aka "Frenchmen" ... who made up the majority of Medieval Crusaders.  In fact, if none of that happened, and we only look at the last 100 years (and given that they never forget and never forgive) ... they have every reason to kill us many times over.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Atheon

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

pr126

Quote from: Atheon on December 02, 2016, 01:24:08 PM
Whoosh! Right over your head.
Sorry, forgot the /sarc.
Because nowadays everything is racist. Unless you are a "minority".

Shiranu

Quote from: pr126 on December 02, 2016, 01:31:15 PM
Sorry, forgot the /sarc.
Because nowadays everything is racist. Unless you are a "minority".


I wonder how worn your victim card is, having to pull it out all the time...
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Shiranu

Quote
Read more carefully.  I didn't say the moslems started the crusades.

QuoteIt is just that I get really tired of screaming moslems shouting about "crusaders" when they started it all.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on November 30, 2016, 04:18:08 AM
The Muslim terrorists are the agents of the State ... in the 1980s and now.  If we see attacks here, it is because Big Brother wants it to happen.  The Muslims are both useful perps and scape goats.  If you want this to end, look to Washington DC and London.

Wow you're almost as cynical as I am!
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

Gun control is a dead horse, I think. That genie will never go back into the bottle. But it will continue to be a hot-button issue for decades to come, because that's the only kind of thing the GOP has to get anyone to vote for them. Things like abortion, gay rights and immigration have been used by conservatives for a long time to manipulate their flock.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman