What made you leave the church?

[Ro3bert]

Not only are most Christians literate now, and have a plethora of English translations/transliterations available for purchase, but there are countless free resources ONLINE for them to use. The only excuse Christians have for being ignorant of the Bible is their laziness. After all, why should they find it important to actually study the book they build their entire lives and ethical code around?

From my experience with christian churches most people (Christians) don't really read the bible (of course some do) their knowledge of the bible relates only to the things the pastor, or whatever the leader is called, talks about in his sermons.

At one time I was a Sunday school teacher of teenagers. At that time I was going to college with a minor in philosophy and tried to incorporate some of the things I learned from studies of religions Eventually I was asked (replaced) for teaching things outside bible selections. What a waste of inquiring minds. The "students" didn't seem to mind in fact they were interested in what I taught. Oh well c'est la vie.

[Cavebear]

From my experience with christian churches most people (Christians) don't really read the bible (of course some do) their knowledge of the bible relates only to the things the pastor, or whatever the leader is called, talks about in his sermons.

At one time I was a Sunday school teacher of teenagers. At that time I was going to college with a minor in philosophy and tried to incorporate some of the things I learned from studies of religions Eventually I was asked (replaced) for teaching things outside bible selections. What a waste of inquiring minds. The "students" didn't seem to mind in fact they were interested in what I taught. Oh well c'est la vie.

Religious people mostly want the love or fear their religion provides.  Doesn't matter what those ideas are so long as they are repeated and internalized. 

For most, it is a freedom from thought.  You do "bad", you go to hell; you follow the rules, you go to heaven, and everyone assumes they will go to heaven somehow. And there ARE always last-minute allowances for even the "bad".  You "believe"; you can't lose. 

To the extent ants can "believe", they probably think the same.  Oh hurray, be an ant...

[Baruch]

Religious people mostly want the love or fear their religion provides.  Doesn't matter what those ideas are so long as they are repeated and internalized. 

For most, it is a freedom from thought.  You do "bad", you go to hell; you follow the rules, you go to heaven, and everyone assumes they will go to heaven somehow. And there ARE always last-minute allowances for even the "bad".  You "believe"; you can't lose. 

To the extent ants can "believe", they probably think the same.  Oh hurray, be an ant...

E O Wilson social theory .. applied to humans.  He studies ants ... and applies his insights to humans.  Maybe not as relevant as chimpanzees.  I am deeply suspicious of people who use a non-primate to explain human behavior.  What the hell is their agenda?  We all have agendas.  So do religions, so do political parties.

[Blackleaf]

E O Wilson social theory .. applied to humans.  He studies ants ... and applies his insights to humans.  Maybe not as relevant as chimpanzees.  I am deeply suspicious of people who use a non-primate to explain human behavior.  What the hell is their agenda?  We all have agendas.  So do religions, so do political parties.

Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.

[Baruch]

Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.

Animal behavior is interesting.  But since we are all related to bacteria ... are humans just petri dish disgusting?

[Cavebear]

Animals usually have the same drives. They want to be fed, not thirsty, have sex, and be happy. There's even a certain beetle that ants will bring offerings of food to so they can crawl on its belly and get high on its secretions.

And yet who is claiming that those ants have a theism?  It seems to be an argument theists do not want to make.

[Blackleaf]

And yet who is claiming that those ants have a theism?  It seems to be an argument theists do not want to make.

A theist would likely quote Psalm 148 to you.

[Baruch]

A theist would likely quote Psalm 148 to you.

Gospel of Thomas 77 ..
Cleave a (piece of) wood; I am there. Raise up a stone, and you will find me there.

[Poison Tree]

I simply read the Bible, the whole Bible, and that was enough to convince me it was NOT the word of any God.

That was a large part of my leaving, except it took multiple times through and wider exposure to the real world to fully take: Inspired word of god>>well, filtered through men who did the actual writing>>ok, the work of men, but there must be something inspired behind/under it>>a book, like many others, written by men; good parts, bad parts, lots of irreverent parts.

[SGOS]

When I first read the Bible, I spotted the circular reasoning of believing the bible was God's word, because the Bible said it was God's word.  I'd never heard of a fallacy at that time, but I knew the reasoning was wrong.  However, I was influenced by the agreement between almost everyone else I had met that the Bible was God's word.  I realized that was a poor reason too, but yet the magnitude of the overwhelming numbers believing, as fallacious as that is, was somehow compelling.  Peer pressure has a way of molding people into conformity, even if they know it's wrong.

So I understand believing from conformity within the group, but Christians usually fall back on the Bible being God's word, because it says so in the Bible.  In my discussions with them, most of them fail to see any problem with that defense, which strikes me odd, because of all the evidence that people like Drew_2017 or Randy attempt to provide, that one comes from the very bottom of a very rotten barrel.

[Unbeliever]

[Baruch]

I knew a guy at work like that, but he wasn't governor of Texas.  There are stupid people everywhere, even here.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, and the stupid people are in charge of everything.

[Hydra009]

That's a lot like internalizing the profits while externalizing the costs.

That's pretty much the business model.  And tax-exempt as well.  Robber barons could learn a thing or two from clergymen.

[SatanicJesus]

I supported Christianity, because I married into it.  They failed to support my family when we needed it most.  Fortunately I also had one foot in the Judaism ... and that carried me forward for a few more years.  I am still a spiritual guy though, I just don't need the institutions and the social clubs.

I hope you can get past your anger, and find a better situation for yourself.  We all need belonging, but you haven't found the right kind yet.  Keep looking, the right kind for you might be secular, associating with people who like the same things you like.  That is how voluntary society works.

I'm just curious what you mean by being a spiritual guy?